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Timster
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« Reply #25 on: March 01, 2008, 02:15:02 AM » |
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We have skaters and groups like that, but they don't loiter in packs at public places and harass people. The closest thing I can think of as a pack of teens would be a group or four or five (enough to fit in a single car,) and even then they are more likely to hang out on someone's porch or in their basement playing videogames. If there's a bunch sitting on a porch doing nothing, you don't have to worry about them stepping of the porch and causing trouble. My friends and I drove through Cabrini Green one time when we were in Chicago and never seen anything that resembled a pack of yobs.
Sometimes if I was with a group of friends and we decided to hang out at a park or at a mall, you'd see security or a police officer drive by a couple of times, and occasionally get out of the car and ask how things are going. Unless there's a complaint or you're acting suspicious, they'd leave you alone.
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Connor
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« Reply #26 on: March 01, 2008, 02:31:40 AM » |
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We have groups of skaters as well but they' mostly harmles except for their moves scaring old ladies.
These are more like Mallrats - except our culture isn't so mall orientated.
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GTX
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« Reply #27 on: March 01, 2008, 03:38:42 AM » |
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Some of the poor and minority sections of the Capital Region of Upstate New York have what I'd call Thugs.
When you have a combination of blighted neighborhoods, residents without vehicles, tons of vacant homes, abandoned buildings, non owner occupied landlords, slumlords and subsidized housing projects you're bound to have below average education, below average skills as well as deadbeat dads, single parent households, heavy drug use, alcohol abuse and crime. Last I heard there were over 10,000 vacant homes in the Capital Region.
When I used to drive through Arbor Hill you'd see people dealing drugs right in front of the cops. When we used to do tech support work in the area, you'd see kids working as lookouts and runners for the drug dealers. You wouldn't dare leave your vehicle unlocked or unattended for very long.
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Timster
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« Reply #28 on: March 02, 2008, 04:14:27 AM » |
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I get a laugh out of the full service drive through drug deals. A buyer drives up in front of a house, then the seller and his buddies all come out to the car. It reminds me of the old days when you'd drive to a full service gas station, and the crew piles out to wash your windshield, check your tire pressure and check your oil while your tank as filled.
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VorLonUK
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« Reply #29 on: March 02, 2008, 05:56:25 AM » |
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I get a laugh out of the full service drive through drug deals. A buyer drives up in front of a house, then the seller and his buddies all come out to the car. It reminds me of the old days when you'd drive to a full service gas station, and the crew piles out to wash your windshield, check your tire pressure and check your oil while your tank as filled. Can you elaborate Timster, not sure what you mean? I might be reading this wrong, but are you saying people who sell drugs (illegal) to those in cars, make out there really offering another service by checking the car over? If that is the case, it does sound pretty funny but not a service that I would think would last for long. |
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Intuit
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« Reply #30 on: March 02, 2008, 06:54:47 AM » |
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It can be debated as to which comes first, but when folks don't have a lot of money they often have a lot of free time... to get into trouble. Imagine having no cable, no video games, no money to go to a theater, eat out or do many of the things we do daily with our free time. This is one of the reasons Parents devote so much time toward keeping their kids busy, busy, busy. Doing household chores, school work, after-school activities, employment work, time with grandparents, etcetera. There are so many sayings that go along the lines of "idle hands are the devil's workshop"...
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agogley
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« Reply #31 on: March 02, 2008, 08:14:36 AM » |
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It can be debated as to which comes first, but when folks don't have a lot of money they often have a lot of free time... to get into trouble. Imagine having no cable, no video games, no money to go to a theater, eat out or do many of the things we do daily with our free time. This is one of the reasons Parents devote so much time toward keeping their kids busy, busy, busy. Doing household chores, school work, after-school activities, employment work, time with grandparents, etcetera. There are so many sayings that go along the lines of "idle hands are the devil's workshop"... Weird, your second statement seemingly contradicts your first statement... I'd agree with you on the point that idle hands are the devil's workshop. In my experience both rich and poor kids get into trouble equally when they are without parental supervision. Kids need more chores... I told my wife I want three kids, one for the housecleaning, one for the yardwork, and one to maintain the cars. She hasn't gotten onboard with that idea yet. |
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se99paj3
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« Reply #32 on: March 02, 2008, 04:11:54 PM » |
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For someone outside the UK this thread makes it look like the only thing our 16-25yo do all day is take lines of coke first thing in the morning, then spend the rest of the day hanging around on street corners looking for the next available car to break into.
The UK does have its problems but no more than any other country.
So our younger generation, me included may enjoy going out and having a drink on the weekend, its not a crime. The problem is the minority of people that can't handle there drink and end up getting violent, these are the ones that you see on the CCTV footage making tits of themselves. There are a whole lot of other young people that can go out on a night getting quite merrily drunk and still manage to get home without starting any fights or confrontations.
The fact is what do young people in this country have to look forward to, I'm on a pretty good salary for my age but my salary gets taxed, my fuel that is ever increasing gets taxed, there is no way that anyone can afford to buy a house without some additional financial support.
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GTX
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« Reply #33 on: March 02, 2008, 05:08:23 PM » |
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I've worked in plenty of low income and high crime areas, but it's rare too see a home with kids without cable television, video games and computers. Since housing, food, utilities, transportation and medical care are subsidized, people have enough disposable income to have luxury items. Computers, television and the internet have become more of a necessity than a luxury. I personally think all the government, state, local and private handouts create weakness, complacency and dependency.
I have friends grew up in low income neighborhoods in single parent households without cable television, video games or allowances. If they needed money they washed windows, mowed lawns, shoveled sidewalks, washed and waxed cars, washed dishes, cleaned houses, walked dogs, took out garbage, picked up groceries for seniors and knocked on doors looking for odd jobs. Some of my friends used to put up work wanted postings, or postings advertising services on the bulletin boards at stores and laundromats. These days it's rare to see kids knocking on doors or actively looking for work by advertising.
We never had cable television or video games when I was growing up and we never received an allowance. I owned and built several homes before I subscribed to cable. I got the basic cable package which consisted of the major networks plus the local and public access channels.
One thing we certainly have in the U.S. is Opportunity. We have areas of the U.S. where housing and the overall cost of living is very reasonable for working class families.
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Timster
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« Reply #34 on: March 02, 2008, 07:49:57 PM » |
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I get a laugh out of the full service drive through drug deals. A buyer drives up in front of a house, then the seller and his buddies all come out to the car. It reminds me of the old days when you'd drive to a full service gas station, and the crew piles out to wash your windshield, check your tire pressure and check your oil while your tank as filled. Can you elaborate Timster, not sure what you mean? I might be reading this wrong, but are you saying people who sell drugs (illegal) to those in cars, make out there really offering another service by checking the car over? If that is the case, it does sound pretty funny but not a service that I would think would last for long. They don't offer any other services, but if you've ever seen the old full service stations or watch a pit crew all roll out to service a car at a race, that's what it looks like. My guess it that the other guys are there to be lookouts or act as muscle to prevent a deal from going bad. When you see four or five guys all standing around a car in the road with it's engine running in front of a house, it looks very suspicious. |
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VorLonUK
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« Reply #35 on: March 02, 2008, 07:59:48 PM » |
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I get a laugh out of the full service drive through drug deals. A buyer drives up in front of a house, then the seller and his buddies all come out to the car. It reminds me of the old days when you'd drive to a full service gas station, and the crew piles out to wash your windshield, check your tire pressure and check your oil while your tank as filled. Can you elaborate Timster, not sure what you mean? I might be reading this wrong, but are you saying people who sell drugs (illegal) to those in cars, make out there really offering another service by checking the car over? If that is the case, it does sound pretty funny but not a service that I would think would last for long. They don't offer any other services, but if you've ever seen the old full service stations or watch a pit crew all roll out to service a car at a race, that's what it looks like. My guess it that the other guys are there to be lookouts or act as muscle to prevent a deal from going bad. When you see four or five guys all standing around a car in the road with it's engine running in front of a house, it looks very suspicious. I've never seen anything like that although no doubt something similar goes on over here on a regular basis. |
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Timster
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« Reply #36 on: March 02, 2008, 08:24:58 PM » |
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The streets I see it on are side streets, not where there's alot of traffic. Years ago it wasn't uncommon for someone to be driving through these same neighborhoods, catch a buddy on his porch (the guys without air conditioning hung out on their porches,) and stop in front of the house and chat with them. These were normally older folks. It has it's roots in the old days when people rode horses or carriages and they didn't have to get off the horse or cart to talk. I've seen the same on country roads where someone sees their buddy driving towards them, then stop in the middle of the road and talk. The main difference here is that these younger guys look like they are trying hard to look casual and alert at the same.
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fragma`
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« Reply #37 on: March 03, 2008, 01:35:44 AM » |
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I would agree with that report Gtx,sadly the yob culture in the Uk is out of hand and something needs to be done about it as its just getting worse,I am not looking through rose tinted glasses either,I am ashamed of the situation with Yobs/Chavs in the UK,blaming it on binge drinking and such is an easy way out, years ago I lived in Spain for a couple of years,a country known for enjoying itself with drink and nightlife and felt more safe over there than I ever have back here in England,I go fishing out of the way of any trouble and yet still have to be on my guard.Just recently a disabled guy was targeted by a group of youths who all bet each other they could knock him out,after chasing him across two housing estates in the North of England,they then repeatedly headbutted and punched him till he was eventually unconscious and left him to die in a pool of blood. Last night I popped out to town to use an Atm machine,a car was pulled up nearby with 4 hooded youths sat in it,I decided it would be wise to skip using it etc As for the weather I have no complaints  |
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Zut50
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« Reply #38 on: March 03, 2008, 02:36:06 AM » |
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Oh for christs sake... Bloody whiners! You can all bloody well sod off then.... I'll live here on my own!
OH I DON'T LIKE THE CHAVS, THEY SHOULD STRING 'EM ALL UP
OH I DON'T LIKE ALL THE CRIME, THEY SHOULD BRING BACK CAPITAL PUNISHMENT
OH I DON'T LIKE GORDON FREAKING BROWN, THEY SHOULD MAKE EVERYTHING MAGICALLY BETTER WITHOUT CHANGING ANYTHING!!
WAA WAA BLOODY WAA. GROW UP FOR GODS SAKE!
I live in a rather rough village and have never been mugged or beaten up or robbed or seen ANY crime or anti-social behaviour of any kind. I hear this kind of CRAP and NONSENSE from many of my friends and relatives and I KNOW for a FACT that they haven't been preyed upon either.
Many of these people, that I shall refer to as "Daily Mail" readers.... YES you know who you are, you pig-ignorant Nazi scum... many of them these days are just biggoted morons who take some kind of sick pleasure in sniping at things they dont understand. They automatically assume that ALL politicians are idiots, that ALL kids are criminals, that ALL change is bad. They can't POSSIBLY conceive that justice doesn't necessarily favour the home-owner who tries to kill a burglar, that speed cameras migth actually save lives (NO YOU SHOULDN'T BE DOING MORE THAN 30MPH YOU INCONSIDERATE FREAKING IDIOT - THAT HAS'T CHANGED JUST BECASUE THAY CAN ENFORCE IT MORE EASILY NOW!), that immigrants might actually be nice, hard working people, that youths might actually need help rather than just being locked up and spat at.
The rising tide in this country isn't from youths or immigrants, its from ULTRA-RIGHT WING idiots who think they know how to run the country!
My advice to you all is to F**K OFF THE ANOTHER COUNTRY THEN! We'll be far FAR better off without you all!!
Sorry but this just gets me really REALLY REALLY mad!!
Vorlon - I am pretty saddened by your posts. I thought more of you than that reactionary, "when-I-were-a-lad", NIMBY drivel.
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Rossi~
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« Reply #39 on: March 03, 2008, 03:19:49 AM » |
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Oh for christs sake... Bloody whiners! You can all bloody well sod off then.... I'll live here on my own!
OH I DON'T LIKE THE CHAVS, THEY SHOULD STRING 'EM ALL UP
OH I DON'T LIKE ALL THE CRIME, THEY SHOULD BRING BACK CAPITAL PUNISHMENT
OH I DON'T LIKE GORDON FREAKING BROWN, THEY SHOULD MAKE EVERYTHING MAGICALLY BETTER WITHOUT CHANGING ANYTHING!!
WAA WAA BLOODY WAA. GROW UP FOR GODS SAKE!
I live in a rather rough village and have never been mugged or beaten up or robbed or seen ANY crime or anti-social behaviour of any kind. I hear this kind of CRAP and NONSENSE from many of my friends and relatives and I KNOW for a FACT that they haven't been preyed upon either.
Many of these people, that I shall refer to as "Daily Mail" readers.... YES you know who you are, you pig-ignorant Nazi scum... many of them these days are just biggoted morons who take some kind of sick pleasure in sniping at things they dont understand. They automatically assume that ALL politicians are idiots, that ALL kids are criminals, that ALL change is bad. They can't POSSIBLY conceive that justice doesn't necessarily favour the home-owner who tries to kill a burglar, that speed cameras migth actually save lives (NO YOU SHOULDN'T BE DOING MORE THAN 30MPH YOU INCONSIDERATE FREAKING IDIOT - THAT HAS'T CHANGED JUST BECASUE THAY CAN ENFORCE IT MORE EASILY NOW!), that immigrants might actually be nice, hard working people, that youths might actually need help rather than just being locked up and spat at.
The rising tide in this country isn't from youths or immigrants, its from ULTRA-RIGHT WING idiots who think they know how to run the country!
My advice to you all is to F**K OFF THE ANOTHER COUNTRY THEN! We'll be far FAR better off without you all!!
Sorry but this just gets me really REALLY REALLY mad!!
Vorlon - I am pretty saddened by your posts. I thought more of you than that reactionary, "when-I-were-a-lad", NIMBY drivel. Make that 2 of us dude. Couldn't of said it better myself. You forgot to mention the NHS, you know, that National Health Service that we have that is "utter crap" compared to many many countries that don't even have one or have a truly poor health system. RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR If people don't like the NHS then go private you nob-ends! Ah, forgot this was about yobs and crime. Lets go to the US instead.. |
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fragma`
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« Reply #40 on: March 03, 2008, 06:56:18 AM » |
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Oh for christs sake... Bloody whiners! You can all bloody well sod off then.... I'll live here on my own!
OH I DON'T LIKE THE CHAVS, THEY SHOULD STRING 'EM ALL UP
OH I DON'T LIKE ALL THE CRIME, THEY SHOULD BRING BACK CAPITAL PUNISHMENT
OH I DON'T LIKE GORDON FREAKING BROWN, THEY SHOULD MAKE EVERYTHING MAGICALLY BETTER WITHOUT CHANGING ANYTHING!!
WAA WAA BLOODY WAA. GROW UP FOR GODS SAKE!
I live in a rather rough village and have never been mugged or beaten up or robbed or seen ANY crime or anti-social behaviour of any kind. I hear this kind of CRAP and NONSENSE from many of my friends and relatives and I KNOW for a FACT that they haven't been preyed upon either.
Many of these people, that I shall refer to as "Daily Mail" readers.... YES you know who you are, you pig-ignorant Nazi scum... many of them these days are just biggoted morons who take some kind of sick pleasure in sniping at things they dont understand. They automatically assume that ALL politicians are idiots, that ALL kids are criminals, that ALL change is bad. They can't POSSIBLY conceive that justice doesn't necessarily favour the home-owner who tries to kill a burglar, that speed cameras migth actually save lives (NO YOU SHOULDN'T BE DOING MORE THAN 30MPH YOU INCONSIDERATE FREAKING IDIOT - THAT HAS'T CHANGED JUST BECASUE THAY CAN ENFORCE IT MORE EASILY NOW!), that immigrants might actually be nice, hard working people, that youths might actually need help rather than just being locked up and spat at.
The rising tide in this country isn't from youths or immigrants, its from ULTRA-RIGHT WING idiots who think they know how to run the country!
My advice to you all is to F**K OFF THE ANOTHER COUNTRY THEN! We'll be far FAR better off without you all!!
Sorry but this just gets me really REALLY REALLY mad!! Maybe one day when a relative gets done in by a bunch of yobs you might have a different view,in the mean time that was quite a wholesale generalization of anyone who just wants a safe place to live,what exactly is your problem with that? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/wear/7202351.stmOr do you prefer the thrill and excitement of living on the off chance you might get a good kicking.. I have had a relative who was targeted by yobs so yea I would like something done about them,but I guess some people with enough money are voting with their feet and leaving the UK and your reply to anyone who does not like it is to fu*k off to another country thus more or less a stick your head in the sand attitude whilst taking it up the corn hole by the lowlife scum in our country,fair enough if thats how you feel mate to each his own ethos. Wanting a safe place where people don't chase others down for a laugh and a good old kicking..wanting a place where those vulnerable are not chased and kicked to death by thugs,is that really so bad? As for home owners defending their property's like Tony Martin in the UK good bloody job and good for him,mores the pity he didn't make a better job of it (for those of you from the U.S who may not know, Tony Martin defended his farm/home from a burglar and got sentenced..) There is no reason why those who still love this country can't try to do something about the yob problems,you make out that anyone wishing to do something is some kind of upper class prig. I cant for the love of me see why you threw all the other rhetoric into the equation regarding speed cameras,immigrants and the like. |
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Caffeine Cemetary
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« Reply #41 on: March 03, 2008, 07:06:38 AM » |
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Oh for christs sake... Bloody whiners! You can all bloody well sod off then.... I'll live here on my own!
OH I DON'T LIKE THE CHAVS, THEY SHOULD STRING 'EM ALL UP
OH I DON'T LIKE ALL THE CRIME, THEY SHOULD BRING BACK CAPITAL PUNISHMENT
OH I DON'T LIKE GORDON FREAKING BROWN, THEY SHOULD MAKE EVERYTHING MAGICALLY BETTER WITHOUT CHANGING ANYTHING!!
WAA WAA BLOODY WAA. GROW UP FOR GODS SAKE!
I live in a rather rough village and have never been mugged or beaten up or robbed or seen ANY crime or anti-social behaviour of any kind. I hear this kind of CRAP and NONSENSE from many of my friends and relatives and I KNOW for a FACT that they haven't been preyed upon either.
Many of these people, that I shall refer to as "Daily Mail" readers.... YES you know who you are, you pig-ignorant Nazi scum... many of them these days are just biggoted morons who take some kind of sick pleasure in sniping at things they dont understand. They automatically assume that ALL politicians are idiots, that ALL kids are criminals, that ALL change is bad. They can't POSSIBLY conceive that justice doesn't necessarily favour the home-owner who tries to kill a burglar, that speed cameras migth actually save lives (NO YOU SHOULDN'T BE DOING MORE THAN 30MPH YOU INCONSIDERATE FREAKING IDIOT - THAT HAS'T CHANGED JUST BECASUE THAY CAN ENFORCE IT MORE EASILY NOW!), that immigrants might actually be nice, hard working people, that youths might actually need help rather than just being locked up and spat at.
The rising tide in this country isn't from youths or immigrants, its from ULTRA-RIGHT WING idiots who think they know how to run the country!
My advice to you all is to F**K OFF THE ANOTHER COUNTRY THEN! We'll be far FAR better off without you all!!
Sorry but this just gets me really REALLY REALLY mad!!
Vorlon - I am pretty saddened by your posts. I thought more of you than that reactionary, "when-I-were-a-lad", NIMBY drivel. Interesting. Liberals are much the same over here as in the U.K. ;-) |
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VorLonUK
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« Reply #42 on: March 03, 2008, 08:51:27 AM » |
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Vorlon - I am pretty saddened by your posts. I thought more of you than that reactionary, “when-I-were-a-ladâ€, NIMBY drivel.
I'm not going to bite Zut. I may be middle aged, but I don't consider myself an old man. Generations and attitudes change and if you are in your 20's you'll find your thinking will have changed in 25 years time as too will have societies. On topic though, If you think things are acceptable these days as to the yob culture, than either 1) you are happy to ignore the situation and not have any empathy for those who DO suffer, or 2) you've never seen or been affected by yobs. If you mean by “when-I-were-a-ladâ€, NIMBY drivel as a put down, as you feel discipline and respect is NOT the way to go, why not use your obvious selp proffessed NON "NIMBY drivel" and speak up and say so. As for "Reactionary" - there's only a few ways you need sum up a turd, so if i see it (or smell) it, I'll say so. Btw, what words would you give the families of the high profile killings recently carried out by youths. There was the father (name escapes me) and that mentally challenged guy who was beaten for a bet. As for you being saddened by my posts, I'm sickened with your obvious lack of empathy Zut - prove me wrong will ya. |
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Zut50
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« Reply #43 on: March 03, 2008, 01:23:30 PM » |
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Oh for christs sake... Bloody whiners! You can all bloody well sod off then.... I'll live here on my own!
OH I DON'T LIKE THE CHAVS, THEY SHOULD STRING 'EM ALL UP
OH I DON'T LIKE ALL THE CRIME, THEY SHOULD BRING BACK CAPITAL PUNISHMENT
OH I DON'T LIKE GORDON FREAKING BROWN, THEY SHOULD MAKE EVERYTHING MAGICALLY BETTER WITHOUT CHANGING ANYTHING!!
WAA WAA BLOODY WAA. GROW UP FOR GODS SAKE!
I live in a rather rough village and have never been mugged or beaten up or robbed or seen ANY crime or anti-social behaviour of any kind. I hear this kind of CRAP and NONSENSE from many of my friends and relatives and I KNOW for a FACT that they haven't been preyed upon either.
Many of these people, that I shall refer to as "Daily Mail" readers.... YES you know who you are, you pig-ignorant Nazi scum... many of them these days are just biggoted morons who take some kind of sick pleasure in sniping at things they dont understand. They automatically assume that ALL politicians are idiots, that ALL kids are criminals, that ALL change is bad. They can't POSSIBLY conceive that justice doesn't necessarily favour the home-owner who tries to kill a burglar, that speed cameras migth actually save lives (NO YOU SHOULDN'T BE DOING MORE THAN 30MPH YOU INCONSIDERATE FREAKING IDIOT - THAT HAS'T CHANGED JUST BECASUE THAY CAN ENFORCE IT MORE EASILY NOW!), that immigrants might actually be nice, hard working people, that youths might actually need help rather than just being locked up and spat at.
The rising tide in this country isn't from youths or immigrants, its from ULTRA-RIGHT WING idiots who think they know how to run the country!
My advice to you all is to F**K OFF THE ANOTHER COUNTRY THEN! We'll be far FAR better off without you all!!
Sorry but this just gets me really REALLY REALLY mad!!
Vorlon - I am pretty saddened by your posts. I thought more of you than that reactionary, "when-I-were-a-lad", NIMBY drivel. ARGH! What was I on?? Why the hell did I post this?! What the hell is the matter with me?! I officially retract this ENTIRE post. Sorry guys.... I'm very very sorry. When its late and I'm tired I do stuff like this, and then regret it in the morning. I get angry and impulsive, and then I go onto forums and email lists and piss off my friends!! I think the part of my brain that stops me from doing these stupid things falls asleep before I do. This isn't the first time I've done ludicrous stuff like this, and this kind of nonsense has even gotten me into trouble! Again, I'm very sorry! Please forgive me!  Vorlon - I'd like to apologise to you in particular. I REALLY shouldn't have made such a vicious and unfair personal attack. I still disagree with your comments, but in a far less extreme way! ------- Start again -------- I still kind of agree with myself, but I wouldn't have put it that way if there had been any oxygen going to my brain! If I were to re-write my post I might suggest that the magnitude of the problem is being over-inflated by various factors. I don't actually think that the problem is as bad as people make out. Official statistics suggest that crime figures are actually going down, but peoples mistrust of politicians and the police coupled with an overzealous, biased, sensationalist media makes them cynical about such figures. When everything is OK and crime statistics are favourable then people are sceptical, but when some kid gets shot the media are all over it and people think that the fabric of society is unravelling. Its a kind of no-win situation for the establishment, who are actually doing a good job. |
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Connor
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« Reply #44 on: March 03, 2008, 03:41:32 PM » |
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Vorlon,
Time and time again I've tried to prove that this is Media sensationalism but you don't seem to believe me.
Historically Plato and Socrates made made the same arguments against young people. and even in your Childhood Anthony Burgess wrote A Clockwork Orange addressing the same concerns in early 60s kids. This is the same as it has always been, but as usual the media makes the actions of a minority appear to be the same as the actions of the majority.
A for particular incidents they don't prove anything take Steve Wright Jailed last week does that prove that everyone who visits a prostitute is a serial killer? Did Ian Huntly prove that all School Janitors are evil?
When I were a Lad (20 years ago now) the groups I circled around in did the same sort of hanging around the street corners. Keeping clear of the more violent gangs (although occasionaly having fights ourselves)
As I got older I ended up spending more time inside using computers and playing games - but I don't deny still hanging around the streets at lunch time with my friends.
Suggesting this is a new problem or a worse problem is a falacy.
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Clipperjay
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« Reply #45 on: March 03, 2008, 03:57:08 PM » |
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Vorlon,
Time and time again I've tried to prove that this is Media sensationalism but you don't seem to believe me.
Historically Plato and Socrates made made the same arguments against young people. and even in your Childhood Anthony Burgess wrote A Clockwork Orange addressing the same concerns in early 60s kids. This is the same as it has always been, but as usual the media makes the actions of a minority appear to be the same as the actions of the majority.
A for particular incidents they don't prove anything take Steve Wright Jailed last week does that prove that everyone who visits a prostitute is a serial killer? Did Ian Huntly prove that all School Janitors are evil?
When I were a Lad (20 years ago now) the groups I circled around in did the same sort of hanging around the street corners. Keeping clear of the more violent gangs (although occasionaly having fights ourselves)
As I got older I ended up spending more time inside using computers and playing games - but I don't deny still hanging around the streets at lunch time with my friends.
Suggesting this is a new problem or a worse problem is a falacy. The fact is Connor we do have a culture problem in the UK hard for me to say this but we are following a similar pattern of the US in terms of glorification of Gang Land killings and lack of education for the poorer communities! "I don't think the reasons have changed why there is violence and killings its just another environment that fuel's the rage"The specific cases are specific and should be treated as such in context that not all is known about the abuse these people have suffered and victims also. I'm not justifying any sort of murder and manslaughter, but can understand where most of this blind rage is coming from. Media is supposed to be Devils Advocate, reporting the news and letting you make up your own minds on a verdict? Mc Cann if I have spelt it correctly what a circus that has been.... did they do it or didn't they? Anyways I can't remember someone in the UK getting shot for some trainers or a mobile phone? I can remember people getting killed over drugs, race, crimes of passion, mental illness and greed etc.. ZUT never retract anything you felt at the moment if you wanted to rant people understand simple! |
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woodbutcher007
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« Reply #46 on: March 03, 2008, 04:22:09 PM » |
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As far as making money,I don`t have a bit of a problem making anywhere from $150.00 to $300.00 dollars a week cutting and selling firewood.Depending on how I feel physically,as I do have health problems.Of course I see to my firewood needs first.
Leo
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Connor
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« Reply #47 on: March 03, 2008, 05:29:01 PM » |
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You might not remember people being killed over Trainers/Mobile but how about Jewelry/watch - I guess our definitions of Status in some areas have changed.
It can also be noted that the violence of the Rockers in the 60's was simmilarly taken to be kid's copying the American Greasers.
I'm sure simmilar comparisons were made of Teddy Boys, Skinheads and Punks.
Culture has changed and the way we respond/advertise problems has changed.
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GTX
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« Reply #48 on: March 03, 2008, 06:12:55 PM » |
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The streets I see it on are side streets, not where there's alot of traffic. Years ago it wasn't uncommon for someone to be driving through these same neighborhoods, catch a buddy on his porch (the guys without air conditioning hung out on their porches,) and stop in front of the house and chat with them. Years ago porches were places where family and friends would gather on hot summer nights. Before they cracked down on slumlords, blight, safety, health and occupancy codes in some areas, you'd often see groups of lazy unemployed people hanging out on their porches drinking beer, smoking cigarettes, smoking weed and yelling at pedestrians and vehicles passing by. During the summer people would drag old nasty sofas and chairs out on the front porch so they had a place to sit or crash. Many of these characters would use the front porch, front lawn and sidewalk as their ashtray, bathroom and garbage dump. When I've renovated rental properties for other landlords, I've often removed the large single front porches, repalced them with smaller individual entrances, then fenced in the grass in the front since it discourages mobs of tenants and guests form hanging out in front of the properties during the summer. As far as making money,I don`t have a bit of a problem making anywhere from $150.00 to $300.00 dollars a week cutting and selling firewood.Depending on how I feel physically,as I do have health problems.Of course I see to my firewood needs first.
Leo Wood and wood burning equipment sales in the Northeast have been excellent due to the price of heating oil, kerosene and propane. Wood prices have gone up substantially as well. One of our former employees is semi-retired, but sells wood, installs alternative heating equipment and works as a chimney sweep part time. |
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VorLonUK
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« Reply #49 on: March 03, 2008, 06:24:01 PM » |
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Oh for christs sake... Bloody whiners! You can all bloody well sod off then.... I'll live here on my own!
OH I DON'T LIKE THE CHAVS, THEY SHOULD STRING 'EM ALL UP
OH I DON'T LIKE ALL THE CRIME, THEY SHOULD BRING BACK CAPITAL PUNISHMENT
OH I DON'T LIKE GORDON FREAKING BROWN, THEY SHOULD MAKE EVERYTHING MAGICALLY BETTER WITHOUT CHANGING ANYTHING!!
WAA WAA BLOODY WAA. GROW UP FOR GODS SAKE!
I live in a rather rough village and have never been mugged or beaten up or robbed or seen ANY crime or anti-social behaviour of any kind. I hear this kind of CRAP and NONSENSE from many of my friends and relatives and I KNOW for a FACT that they haven't been preyed upon either.
Many of these people, that I shall refer to as "Daily Mail" readers.... YES you know who you are, you pig-ignorant Nazi scum... many of them these days are just biggoted morons who take some kind of sick pleasure in sniping at things they dont understand. They automatically assume that ALL politicians are idiots, that ALL kids are criminals, that ALL change is bad. They can't POSSIBLY conceive that justice doesn't necessarily favour the home-owner who tries to kill a burglar, that speed cameras migth actually save lives (NO YOU SHOULDN'T BE DOING MORE THAN 30MPH YOU INCONSIDERATE FREAKING IDIOT - THAT HAS'T CHANGED JUST BECASUE THAY CAN ENFORCE IT MORE EASILY NOW!), that immigrants might actually be nice, hard working people, that youths might actually need help rather than just being locked up and spat at.
The rising tide in this country isn't from youths or immigrants, its from ULTRA-RIGHT WING idiots who think they know how to run the country!
My advice to you all is to F**K OFF THE ANOTHER COUNTRY THEN! We'll be far FAR better off without you all!!
Sorry but this just gets me really REALLY REALLY mad!!
Vorlon - I am pretty saddened by your posts. I thought more of you than that reactionary, "when-I-were-a-lad", NIMBY drivel. ARGH! What was I on?? Why the hell did I post this?! What the hell is the matter with me?! I officially retract this ENTIRE post. Sorry guys.... I'm very very sorry. When its late and I'm tired I do stuff like this, and then regret it in the morning. I get angry and impulsive, and then I go onto forums and email lists and piss off my friends!! I think the part of my brain that stops me from doing these stupid things falls asleep before I do. This isn't the first time I've done ludicrous stuff like this, and this kind of nonsense has even gotten me into trouble! Again, I'm very sorry! Please forgive me! Vorlon - I'd like to apologise to you in particular. I REALLY shouldn't have made such a vicious and unfair personal attack. I still disagree with your comments, but in a far less extreme way! ------- Start again -------- I still kind of agree with myself, but I wouldn't have put it that way if there had been any oxygen going to my brain! If I were to re-write my post I might suggest that the magnitude of the problem is being over-inflated by various factors. I don't actually think that the problem is as bad as people make out. Official statistics suggest that crime figures are actually going down, but peoples mistrust of politicians and the police coupled with an overzealous, biased, sensationalist media makes them cynical about such figures. When everything is OK and crime statistics are favourable then people are sceptical, but when some kid gets shot the media are all over it and people think that the fabric of society is unravelling. Its a kind of no-win situation for the establishment, who are actually doing a good job. No problem Zut |
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