! LAPTOP CHARGING/POWER ISSUE

[Rossi~]

Hey guys,
I have a Sony Vaio PCG K315Z and im having some battery charging issues with it.

- It will charge ok when the laptop is powered but maybe takes a little while to do so
- When i am in an O/S either XP or ubuntu (hardy) the charge/power status constantly switches between charging/AC power/running on battery
- When idling in ubuntu it can gain battery power (basically ubuntu @ idle = bugger all power usage)
- The laptop can sit in the bios screen forever on just the AC and no battery attached but as soon as it gets halfway through loading the O/S it turns off
- The contents of the power adapter (PCGA AC19v) are not fixed (as if i shake it the board knocks about inside)

Basically I'm thinking this is an issue with the power adapter, either it's just plain fucked or not kicking out enough voltage or the voltage is fluctuating to much. I can easily get a new power adapter and i hope that's the reason for this but before i get it i wanted to ask for some opinions on this predicament.


Cheers

[VorLonUK]

Hey guys,
I have a Sony Vaio PCG K315Z and im having some battery charging issues with it.

- It will charge ok when the laptop is powered but maybe takes a little while to do so
- When i am in an O/S either XP or ubuntu (hardy) the charge/power status constantly switches between charging/AC power/running on battery
- When idling in ubuntu it can gain battery power (basically ubuntu @ idle = bugger all power usage)
- The laptop can sit in the bios screen forever on just the AC and no battery attached but as soon as it gets halfway through loading the O/S it turns off
- The contents of the power adapter (PCGA AC19v) are not fixed (as if i shake it the board knocks about inside)

Basically I'm thinking this is an issue with the power adapter, either it's just plain fucked or not kicking out enough voltage or the voltage is fluctuating to much. I can easily get a new power adapter and i hope that's the reason for this but before i get it i wanted to ask for some opinions on this predicament.


Cheers

Best to get it checked out - battery too.

Don't like the sound of something moving around in the adapter, but then there may be some movement as PCB's "boards" and connectors are sometimes in locating slots. Once the two halves of the adapter body are Sealed/Screwed together there is sometimes some "play". Depends how hard you shake it and how it's made for there to be some movement.

I'd check with Sony if it's under guarantee, or even try their support line anyway. They will be able to tell you if there are any issues with Adapters and/or batteries.

[Reflex]

Be very careful with that battery and make certain its not on the recall list.  Sony had a ton of defective batteries.  Also, take it out and lay it on a flat surface, make certain there are no bulges anywhere.  If it isn't perfectly flat on its flat surfaces, do not use it any longer...

[Intuit]

I've repaired a lot of jacks on laptops before... including the Sony VAIO.  SImply resoldering the jack back into place won't due.  One or several ways, they must be reinforced so that the same problem doesn't occur all over again where the consequences will likely be so severe as pulling the barrels out of the PCB.  It's pretty rare that the actual jack itself needs to be replaced.

Charger boards rarely go bad in my experience and manufacturers after a year or longer will issue BIOS updates that tweak the dis/charge monitoring algorithms.

What typically happens is the charging mechanisms fall out of calibration with normal usage.  To recalibrate the charge system, launch windows, disable automatic shutdown and power save features.  Close all programs and let the BIOS + Windows monitor the discharge until the laptop does hard shutoff.  I've had laptops that have stayed on well above 60 minutes after the charge indicator has read zero.  After the hard-shutoff, briefly plug in the power adapter just long enough to power it back on then go into the BIOS and let it sit again until it does another hard shutoff.  Repeat this a few times until it no longer stays on for a any length of time.   Now the system is compeltely discharged.  NEXT, boot up into Windows with all power save and autoshutoff features disabled, and allow it + the BIOS to monitor the full charge cycle.  NOW, repeat the discharge and recharge process once more.  After that, the dis/re/charge system should be recalibrated.  I've had some laptops that just don't recalibrate well however.  Some of that is the battery, some of it is just the design.

Slow charging on Dell machines can be indicative of having the wrong power supply... 60 Watt version versus 90W.  Laptop runs well either way... charging just takes much longer.

I've never seen a laptop gain power while in a discharge state, even in Ubuntu.  That indicates that it's basing it's estimates on current power consumption rates and is just a little to aggressive with it.

The power adapter is probably outputing power at nominal levels and aside from whatever shaking inside of it, is probably fine.  The thing is, I've opened up a few bad ones before and they're usually pretty solidly built.  Is the case damaged ?  Is there a hint of a plastic or burnt smell ?  Does it get exceptionally hot or have hot-spots ?  Is the cord damanged ?  Certainly wouldn't hurt to air on the side of caution though...

[Rossi~]

There are no bulges on the battery it looks mint, the whole laptop is in very good condition but not under warranty anymore. Will check the recall list and compare but i dont think it's the battery as it turns of on it's own with just the adapter plugged in and when it's just got a fully charged battery it runs fine 100%

[Reflex]

In that case, I'd check the connector, I've had situations where they desoldered themselves or simply broke the solder(cold solder joint).

[Rossi~]

Ok after reading Intuit's post i fear the connector is buggered. Anyone know any where i can take it to get it looked at as i have tried getting the case off this to investigate and after 2 hours got nowhere.
As for the "NEXT, boot up into Windows with all power save and autoshutoff features disabled, and allow it + the BIOS to monitor the full charge cycle." i cannot boot into windows on AC power and the battery in windows with AC will just discharge and turn off with the AC adapter in it. I will give it a go though.

[Intuit]

Sounds like you'll need to service that jack first.

Re laptop disassembly:  http://esupport.sony.com/US/perl/select-system.pl?DIRECTOR=DOCS
They might have a manual for full disassembly, might not.  Either way the first step is to remove all peripherals including the drives and battery, then keyboard bezel, then the keyboard, then the monitor.  Cake from there (with exception to some Gateway models - yeesh).  Just a warning, I've had some poorly serviced laptops come my way and the hardest thing for people it seems, is get all the screws back and in the same locations one and solder a joint properly two.  Organize the screws on a separate surface out of the way that mimics the pattern in which they were placed before removal.  Avoid overheating the joints, hitting them too many times, using too much pressure and too much solder.

Sometimes laptops will themselves incorporate a delay before the charging begins.  It has nothing to do with Windows itself, but is a function of the laptop and it's BIOS programming.  The delay I'd imagine can serve a number of purposes and whether it's discharging for calibration purposes or refusing to charge because something is out of parameter, I don't know.  For safety reasons some laptops will refuse to charge if for example, the laptop or battery indicates that it's too hot or if the battery is in just too much of a degraded condition to accept a charge.  

If for some reason windows is shutting down immediately after you boot in due to critical battery reserves,
"Control Panel" --> "Power Options" or Start Menu --> Run --> Type:  PowerCfg.CPL --> Click: OK
Disable all power saving features and reboot to save those changes.
Once you've done that you should be able to get into windows with the AC adapter plugged it.

[Rossi~]

Hmmm im not sure about windows shutting down because of the battery and ubuntu does the same even with no power management enabled. Also when it did it with wondows it didn't even finish the initial load, it started then after 2/3 seconds of the windows XP loading screen it turns off. This is why i initially thought it was the AC adapter not chucking out enough power/fluctuating especially as it can sit in the bios forever with only the AC plugged in and no battery.
Cheers for the link though, i may rip this baby apart but not yet.

[Intuit]

Sounds like it's doing a hard shutoff because the battery is dead but some details don't quite jive so I have a few questions:

Remove the battery.  Does the jack feel loose, does gently wiggling the plug cause the laptop to shutdown or with the battery reinstalled, disrupt charging ?

Do you see the same behavior when attempting to boot into windows, with and without the power supply ?
Does the charge indicator light up at all ?
Does the laptop ever refuse to cut on when the battery is dead, instead flashing the power light to indicate 'dead battery' ?

[Rossi~]

Remove the battery.  Does the jack feel loose, does gently wiggling the plug cause the laptop to shutdown or with the battery reinstalled, disrupt charging ?
No it doesn't feel loose and wiggling it does not change the status of charge at all nor does it shutdown

Do you see the same behavior when attempting to boot into windows, with and without the power supply ?
Not sure what you mean here but when its just running on battery it loads fine and same with the AC adapter in ass well

Does the charge indicator light up at all ?
Yes normal flashing charge indicator on the laptop but the windows/ubuntu charge/power indicator switches between charging/on AC power/on battery power discharging

Does the laptop ever refuse to cut on when the battery is dead, instead flashing the power light to indicate ‘dead battery’ ?
Cut on? If the battery has any charge in it then it will definitely turn on and run until it's dead, it never indicates that it has a 'dead battery' when it does not.

[Rossi~]

Right. I managed to take apart the laptop and damn Sony make good laptops, so tidy and not much plastic, well built. But anyway, the charging circuit looks fine, nothing's blown and no raised copper strips, looks mint. i cleaned all contacts and reseated the AC contacts and plug, all ok.
I put it all back together but tna, the same. It can sit on bios forever without the battery in and just on AC but when you go to load an O/S it just turns off.. strange. Same thing in O/S with battery in and AC as well just changes from charging to discharging to AC power constantly..

Any ideas before i play Vaio golf?

[Intuit]

Thought some things didn't jive.  Sorry for not getting back with you.
How far does it get when loading the O/S ?  Splash screen, Welcom screen, or desktop ?
Does the same thing when loading up Ubuntu Live CD ?
If so then are all the fans running properly and changing speed ?  Do they sound stressed and are the heatsinks clean ?
Some of the Dell heatsinks run pretty deep and you can't blow them out properly without removing them altogether.
All of the laptops I've had with abrupt shutoff issues, shutoff due to heat.  But they were all older model Dells...
Are any of the intake and exhuast vents located on the bottom ?  This has been a factor in overheating problems as well.
For those what I normally do is to cut-out a rectangular piece of fiber-board properly sized for the laptop and sometimes the mouse.  Never had anyone complain about the issue reoccuring when they used it.  Easiest test to see if this will resolve it is to simply use it on a table.



Just an FYI this isn't your problem, but broken solder joints won't always be visible to the naked eye.

[Rossi~]

It shuts off on the splash loading screen after like 2 seconds and the same happens with the ubuntu live cd. All the fans spin fine and change speed, they're clean and sound perfect. Heatsinks and heat pipes are fine too, checked all that when i had it all out. This thing is definitely not overheating. Because this thing wont charge or run on AC properly with the battery in i think we suggest it's a power issue.

[Intuit]

Sounds like you're right.

[Rossi~]

Im not sure what to do with it to be honest

[Intuit]

Seems kind of wierd that it only waits until the O/S loads up.   Let's minimize the load to see if there are any changes.  Unfortunately booting off of flash isn't yet consistent or easy, but first go ahead and strip ALL the peripherals off of the machine.  Mini-PCI NIC card, one of two SODIMMs, any USB external USB devices.  "Turn off" what you can in the BIOS.  Anything that's not required to boot including the keyboard and mouse is fair-game.  Try booting off the DvD with the HD removed then vice-versa.  Try to remove as much load as you can from the system and see if it boots.  (charging the batter will probably create by far the largest load)

Also I'm only about 90% clear on something.  You're saying that while on AC, it boots fine without the batter, but with the battery it does not boot or behaves inconsistently ?  (this is irrelevant of whether or not it charges the battery)  If so then it is possible that it could just be a battery problem and there is a bug in the design.  The best recourse may be to turn it into a desktop or risk buying a new battery.

I looked in on my report for a Sony VAIO PCG-FXA36(UC) and noticed "CPU static shield improperly installed, resting on CPU die; reducing thermal transfer efficiency.".  Did you notice anything odd or setting upon the die post disassembly ?  In addition they had a piece of foil attached to some heatsink compound and the CPU rested upon the foil.  Without gouging or creating fine scratches on the CPU contact surface of the heatsink, I stripped all that away and used a high-performance compound in place of it.

[MrkXCeL]

I'm gonna chime in with - power brick issue

I bought a used/cheap Sony laptop off ebay once, no power adapter, I had one laying around that had the right plug, but the volts were short by 2V or 3V.  

It would do exactly as you describe, I could let it sit in bios for days, (crossing fingers that it'd get to charge), as soon as you let it boot, it would shutdown during boot up, or seconds after it finally got into windows.  

It could be the battery, but I've got a dying battery on my Panasonic and all is good, it just complains that there was a charging failure.

[Intuit]

Interesting.  Thanks for "chiming in".

[Rossi~]

GOOD NEWS!!

Somebody at work had a 5 year old Vaio that died, proper died so we scrapped the laptop and i kept the power adapter which was different to mine but same volts and connector.
Got home, plugged it in and BAM! it's working fine now!!


It was the AC adapter all along just as i thought

[Intuit]

Ironically just had a VAIO that had a busted power adapter.  REplaced the power adapter and still wouldn't power up.  Removed all power including the battery from it for a minute the hooked everything back up and still didn't work.  After another 20 seconds of fiddling with it it powerd up until it got to the boot screen then died.  Keep a longer story short it turned-out to be a manufacturing defect in the power jack.  There wasn't adequate contact between the jack's center-pin and the supporting backplane.  Soldered a jumper-wire from the back of the center-pin directly to the PCB and all was hunky-dory.


EDIT:  NOT VAIO... that was a Hewlett-Packard laptop...

[Rossi~]

Yeah the power jack was a bit dodgey on this vaio to be honest but i wipped it out, cleaned the contacts, soldered it properly and put it back. It wasn't the source of the issue but i had to do it.