Marijuana Advocates Point to Signs of Change

[hugh]

it doesn't matter if you see him as a "quack" because that's exactly the issue, poeple have their own notions about medical marijuana, and while you might not see it as the best option to take, and it might seem a bit too uch like a shamen healer or something in that it's more of a feel-good general medicine, if we're gonna call it that, than chemica;s which have been designed to target specific problems etc, but i have my notions, and to me, it all seems very un-quack, for a start a doctor isn't gonna administer your medication, it's really not needed

and in terms of addiction, yes, i certainly agree that that's a large erason for drug restrictions, but hell, it is marijuana, they cannot stick it to a class B drug because of it's addictive properties!  and then let anyone with £5 get trolleyed on jack frost white cider or a pack of lambert and buttler, i think those two are just slightly more on the addictive side of things, as far as i'm concerned, sod the law, if it's legal for 10 guys to walk past the back of the house pissed as farts, singing their faces off, pissing on the parked car, well then i will smoke weed feeling happy in that i'm so much better for society using my highly illegal drugs than the law abiders...

[Intuit]

Mixing topics.  Medicinal marijuana (treat illnesses ~ morphine) vs recreational marijuana (personal enjoyment ~ alcohol).  In short we need verification for the former and the latter, treat it like alcohol.  Folks can literally become addicted to anything.  But chemically speaking, I wonder what the statistical liklihoods of addiction are as compared to say, alcohol.  As I've said before, while it's easy to find an angry drunk, not so easy to find a threatening weed head.  In either case, you don't want them operating heavy machinery or motorized equipment.

Speaking of the topic I about choked driving behind a minivan a few days ago.  Must'a been toke'n some absolutely potent shtuff.  Weed, cigarettes, cigars, alcohol even...  folks don't realize how strong that stuff is.   Never could figure out why folks like to poison themselves...

[hugh]

In either case, you don’t want them operating heavy machinery or motorized equipment.

why's that then?

[Babar]

Though anti-depressants can have radically different effects in different people, they're not illegal because they're administered by trained, licensed, professionals and under some supervision.  Medicinal marijuana would have to be placed under the same standards.  But given it's stigma, you'll find few if any legitemate and licensed Doctors who are willing to administer the drug.  To be forward, I'd be tempted to label such a Doctor, "Quack," myself.  Now keep in mind that I'm pretty much a non pro-drug individual in general, ("anti-drug" implies banning it for people other than myself,) but I would have to see wide spread peer reviewed mainstream published studies detailing it's chemistry, listing it's side-effects and proving it's value as the better alternative to competing substances/drugs already on the market.  Now since the stuff can be "refined" over a kitchen stove or whatever, pharmaceutical companies aren't likely to ever support it and any funding directed in attention of the matter will likely go toward lobbying maintaing the existing status-quo.

I believe the effects of THC have been pretty well reviewed, especially since it is present in two drugs, Dronabinol and Marinol. But unfortunately, like you said, the drug itself has a stigma, attached to it as a result of the "War on Drugs" which has been strongly suggested a failure. Even today, growers of legitimate medical marijuana get raided by the DEA in bouts of overzealousy; we have a long way to go still.

I'm not sure you can refine marijuana over a kitchen stove (were you thinking of Meth?) but by legalizing and regulating marijuana, quality controls can be placed on it to limit "spiking" or adulterating it with other (possibly more dangerous) drugs. Not to mention the tax revenue factor. I just think legalization is a win-win situation.

[Intuit]

As stated or directly-implied before, have nothing against legalization.  I just don't see it's potential value as anything other than a recreational drug.  Again, keep in mind that I won't take tylenol, let alone any other drug that isn't actually "needed".  But those are my views and I believe in live and let-live.  Just because I don't see or understand it's purpose in my life, doesn't mean that I believe everyone else should abide by that rule.  I'm sure you feel the same way.

In either case, you don’t want them operating heavy machinery or motorized equipment.

why's that then?

For the same reasons mentioned before.
Reference:  http://www.sudhian.com/index.php?/forums/viewpost/914239/

EDIT:  Can't resist the pun.  Note in particular that one of the side effects is "impaired memory".  /joking Hugh  

[hugh]

ah, thought you were either being sarcastic, or that you were truly that against things like drink and drugs and that users are not responsible makes sense now, i talk to a lot of smokers online, and they often talk about lighting up a bowl before they hit the road for work and such, so yeah, i'd fully agree on that

i was thinking heyyyyyy, nothing wrong with using machinery, i play with knives around 15yr olds for my job

[Intuit]

I managed to juggle 3 balls for 1.5 seconds once.  It was amazing, you should've seen it.  

Wait, are you talking about the throw the knives at the apple on a person's head trick ?

(Nah, maybe he means Chef...)

[hugh]

certainly a few of the employyees i'd happily throw my knives at, but alas no.

whne i'm not on the it and maagement side of things at work, i'm fishmongering and butchery. i'm ehing trained as a butcher, but i'm doing the training as the fish monger, i'm teaching them how to work with knives, use em, play safe etc, how to efficiently sharpen em etc, you name it. and there are accidents near every day with someone cutting themselves. and all under the control of me, a pot head i suppose. and i don't do things half hearted, if i can run my index finger along the blade, it's not ready to use, doesn't mean it can't, just if a job is worth doing, it's worth doing properly, especially with a £200 fish, so i personally make sure that every knife that me and the kids are gonna be using that day are as sharp as the devils advisor, and smoking pot certainly hasn't effected my motor skills, judgement, anything, i'm happy to say i buck every single stoner stereotype i personally belive, that if i got given a manual job, i would be able to outwork and out-perform 95% of the guys i was working alongside, smoking really isn't the drug the government makes it out to be.

i mean sure you get twats scrounging benefits to buy an 8th to roll up some prison joints, but that's not everyone! i know a LOT of people who smoke grade and i mean a lot, and only 1 of about 100 i know, sit at home fiending and not getting a job, and that's because noone would want to give him a job, not because he smokes, but i have never once claimed for benefits, or even thought of it, completely unspeakable, i don't deserve taxpayers money simply because i can't find a job..

i probably smoke more than anyone on here, and i probably work as hard as anyone on here.

[Timster]

If you were an employer, and there were serious accidents happening onsite that were the result of an employee taking something that impairs their reflexes or judgment, would you keep encouraging the at-risk behavior of working while impaired?  Would you like it if a doctor downed a couple shots of whiskey before operating on you because it soothes his nerves before he operates on you?  Would you want him getting baked, and forget something?  he might just do fine, no harm, no foul, but there's greater chance of an accident happening when at-risk behavior is present.

[Intuit]

As good as you are now Hugh, just think how much better you could be without it.  
Unto each, his own.  But I'm betting that you don't need that stuff.  Also this really
isn't good for your respiratory system.  May not be evident while you're young, but these
sorts of behaviors really catch up with you big-time in the later years.

Just trying to be encouraging; I don't mean to imply that your decisions are being made without knowledge and consideration.  Many (including myself) if not most folks know full well the potential outcomes of their actions, (or inactions,) but simply choose to engage in the behaviors anyway.

[Babar]

I suppose you could compare this to everyone's OTHER favorite drug, alcohol. Showing up at work stumbling around is not the way to stay employed... as it should be for marijuana. However, I still think people should be able to buy it legally.

[hugh]

As good as you are now Hugh, just think how much better you could be without it.  
Unto each, his own.  But I'm betting that you don't need that stuff.  Also this really
isn't good for your respiratory system.  May not be evident while you're young, but these
sorts of behaviors really catch up with you big-time in the later years.

Just trying to be encouraging; I don't mean to imply that your decisions are being made without knowledge and consideration.  Many (including myself) if not most folks know full well the potential outcomes of their actions, (or inactions,) but simply choose to engage in the behaviors anyway.

not at worry man, i turned to marijuana as a last resort to be honest. it was only after i'd cut my wrists that i got to the doctors to get help etc, they made everything worse, took my money for drugs that caused me to sit in bed cutting my arms and such. i would be drinking upto 10 pints a night, it was not good. anyways, i met someone, we lit up a smoke, i bought an 8th, this lasted me weeks, and while i was smoking, i found i asn't getting as crazily over the top, i stopped cutting myself, got the booze out of my system,  and felt pretty good for myself. i got out, i met new epople, i went and got a job, and while i'm still depressed at times, on the whole, i'm a happy clappy individual.

and yes, i'm good, and i can't get much better at my current position, i wouldn't ever even consider going into work stoned, that would be asking for a lot of trouble, i'd hurt myself, possibly others (i'm have a very animated proceedure to sharpening my knifes ) and i'd certainly be fired.

and yeah, i know it's not too good on the old breathing aparatus, but sod it tbh, i kind of see life as a bonus chapter for me, on my 21st dinner the parents turned around with a bottle of champagne to congratulate me saying they never expected me to get this far..  messed up!

but yeah, basically the government protocol was that i had councelling and took anti-deps, that was the only treatment offered to me. 3 months of this and i had the police kicking my bathroom door in because of a phonecall someone made, i was trying to OD on painkillers, it was not good. due to the severity of the situation, i needed a strong and effective rememdy quick, weed was just that, but is illegal, so the government would rather that i follow their policy, and pretty much end up dead, or a very high risk of this, than letting me cure myself.

i've been discussing this with some lawyer friends, and they all say blah blah that's not how human rights work, but the word is human, it's my human right, that i get for being a human, not for living in england. i honestly can't understand how it is illegal for me to medicate myswelf in this situation, especially considering my right to life!

[KoolHonda]

That's why it's illegal. The big corporation's with their lobbyist know it's better than anything they can come up with.

[hugh]

yup, and as babar said, they could do real damn well for themselves if they just took the blow and admited that they were wrong. but the can't do that now can they.

[Intuit]

Well, I lost that bet.  More power to ya Hugh.  I understand...

EDIT:  (I do hope that you're able to find a better, healthier alternative in the future.  But I totally agree about those pharmaceutical drugs...)

[Babar]

New things keep coming up, and getting banned. The latest one just may be Salvia. Check out this NY Times story on Salvia: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/09/us/09salvia.html