H.L. Gates Jr. - Racial Profiling or Bad Behavior?

[Babar]

So by now you've all seen the news stories regarding the arrest of H.L. Gates Jr. Do you think it was a case of racial profiling, or was the cop justified because Gates was behaving badly?

I think it's a hard one. Gates was screaming at the officer, etc, but who knows how much of that was anger and indignity over the feeling of being a victim of profiling, and how much of that was just plain bad behavior towards a cop.

I do think, however, that the neighbor who called the "break-in" to the police was a flat out racist. She just saw two black men at the front door and immediately called the cops.

Discuss.

[craigbru]

I tend to agree that it's a little hard to decipher exactly who was at fault.  I think reactions on both parts were more extreme than they needed to be.  I don't feel the cop was out of line asking for ID.  Gates reacted with anger, and things escalated from there.  At least that's what I gather.  The sad part is that I feel the term 'racist' is thrown around too much.  I think incidents like this promote racism, rather than just being an example of it.  If you take race out of the story and assume he were white, I believe the result would have been the same.  The only difference would be the media coverage...

[daboggeyman]

I would have to agree with craigbru , or at least say that would be my feelings . Nether one was willing to give an inch and what was left were two people who made fools out of their selfs. So now we have a lot of accusations flying all over the place. I think these two men need to cool off and sit down and talk the hole mess out.

[MotionMan]

I am going to get myself into trouble posting in this thread:

I am one of those crazy people who think you should comply with the instructions of police officers, treat them with respect and generally try not to make their jobs any harder than they already are.

I stupidly believe that, if I believe my rights are being violated, I should respectfully point this fact out to the officer once, maybe twice.  If the officer insists on continuing his behavior, I then would try to make note of as much of the interaction as possible and, when the contact has ended, write it all down.  (I believe that the shorter time I spend interacting with the cops, the better for me - shutting up is a great way to end such interactions.  Calling cops racist to their face is not.  See Chris Rock Video below)

If, after doing all that, I feel it is necessary to proceed further, I would then write a letter to the police department (and others portions of the government and possibly the media) to seek some redress, corrective action and possibly, an apology.

Of course, I am not black, so, in some peoples' eyes, my radical ideas carry no weight.

I will leave you with these thoughts from Chris Rock:

"How not to get your ass kicked by the police."

MotionMan

[Timster]

From my own personal experience with a break-in at my house, the police arrive at the scene assuming nothing is what it seems, and I was as much a suspect than a victim.  Working in the IT field I find myself asking questions as part of a procedure to rule out the obvious, and it appeared the officers were doing the same.  After talking to the officers for a bit, they loosened up a little.

To me, an articulate older man (regardless of color) that is dressed well does not fit the profile of who you'd expect to find at a break-in.  If he was younger and appeared like he didn't belong there, I'm sure the cops could've been guilty of profiling.

[MotionMan]

From my own personal experience with a break-in at my house, the police arrive at the scene assuming nothing is what it seems, and I was as much a suspect than a victim.  Working in the IT field I find myself asking questions as part of a procedure to rule out the obvious, and it appeared the officers were doing the same.  After talking to the officers for a bit, they loosened up a little.

To me, an articulate older man (regardless of color) that is dressed well does not fit the profile of who you'd expect to find at a break-in.  If he was younger and appeared like he didn't belong there, I'm sure the cops could've been guilty of profiling.

I hear that calling a cop a racist to his face is a good way of convincing him that he is mistaken in his assumption that you are not a criminal.  In fact, I believe that cops are trained to, when angrily called a racist, allow the person to go on their way with the heartfelt apologies of the officer and the entire department...

MotionMan

[Balthaser]

Hard to say. The cop might be doing his job.

But ,,,heck! How the f**k does the neighbor NOT know the professor and ended up with calling 911. This confuses the shit out of me. You tell me this is NOT racial profiling.

[MotionMan]

Hard to say. The cop might be doing his job.

But ,,,heck! How the f**k does the neighbor NOT know the professor and ended up with calling 911. This confuses the shit out of me. You tell me this is NOT racial profiling.

You say that like racial profiling is bad...

(Here, let me go get my asbestos suit.)

MotionMan

[Intuit]

Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:45 am
There's really too much we don't know to speculate. But it's apparent that both parties made mistakes. Mr. Gates even if provoked (which I know some do) likely overreated. He was probably already fatigued from travel and the door situation probably didn't help either. The police have yet to provide a legitemate reason for the actual arrest. Those are the two liklihoods. Everything else is a "he-said, she-said" ; and there is little that can be said about these types of matters unless your privy to the situation as it happened.

Tried to post a response yesterday but couldn't complete it because there is just too much that we don't really know. (which means you have a response detailing and speculating each possibility -- takes too long and nearly pointless in the end) Overheard a CBS/NBC/ABC evening news cast and it added the 'initially refused identification but later submitted' detail. NPR report this morning added some details implying that officer was followed out to the car. But all pictures from the scene and prior reports detail him being lead out from his home in hand-cuffs.

The quotes lead me to suspect that he may have had a bruised ego from not being recognized as a celebrity would be. (on the flipside) I've had strangers approach and address me talking ignorant and that might illicit the same type of response and I'm anything but a celebrity. I've had law enforcement approach and address me without the same kind of regard/respect that most people give reasonable adults so I can perfectly understand that response from that standpoint as well like, who do you think you're talking to. "ill speak with your mother outside" could very well be a defensive response after being disrespected. Doesn't mean he labeled the officer's Mother a female dog. They could have shown up guns drawn and demanding that he hit the floor. Such actions would probably elicit that response. Even if he called the officer a #$@#%*&$*^(@#! and his mother a Sunday afternoon two-bit whore, that's not a good enough reason for arrest. For an arrest there should be a threat issue, reason to believe a danger or disturbance to the public. He would have to follow them off the property. Just wasting resources and tax payer money arresting a jet-lagged 60 year old man in his own home over a few choice insults and accusations. I certainly don't get to send folks to jail over a few directed and personal insults. (not that I'd like to)

The caller might've simply asked the police to investigate. If the case, is a little different from calling in a home invasion/robbery. Scattered reports stating the call came in as 'two black men' entering the home or whatever. Either way they're simply obligated to investigate to the best of their human, mortal and professional ability before taking action. Simply knock on the door, ask a few probing questions, (making sure there isn't a hostage situation,) take a photo ID, verify it against the database, then leave. Entering the home, responding to annoyance or escalating with threats isn't required.



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[the reason this is separated out is, just sharing a personal understanding/background -- not saying this policeman is necessarily guilty of anything -- it is possible that he allowed past experiences with other individuals who are racist and happen to work in law enforcement, influence his current behavior -- "the straw" combined with "misplaced aggression/frustration" in other words]

I can understand some of that prideful disgust about being jailed. (how will he answer this question on an employment application? ) In reality there has been no conviction so yes, folks can still safely answer with a "no" without fear of falsification charges. So Mr. Gates is expressing some of his own imagination in that regard. He knows the laws.

Yeah I've witnessed that "broad imagination" from law enforcement officials (who are human btw) before... when asking questions becomes "resisting" and "hiding something" and dreads means police drug dogs. It's like a few of them out there are looking to be featured in the next COPS episode or something. Putting on your flashers and slowly progressing to a spot where you can get off the main road means "running". That's all fabricated drama as though dealing with someone with a "rap sheet," attitude or extreme unreasonable behavior. On more than a few occassions, just utter, unwarranted, unprofessional, disrespect. Another incident after getting there and talking to his coworkers/buddies normally, looks at me, smirkingly addresses me as "What's up?"; as if speaking down to "my" level of language, practicing his "ebonics" or something. Didn't escalate, didn't mockingly respond (with his country accent) or make a big deal out of it. Gave him a look and simply replied, "nothing" then looked down in dusgust and shook my head. (he then jumps in my car, quickly flips down the visor, opens/closes vanity mirror cover, open the glove compartment sits there for a moment then exits...) My pants aren't three sizes too big and hanging half-way down my butt with no belt and a football jersey, speak to me as if you're speaking with someone who helps pay your salary. Show me the same respect that I've shown you. Some law enforcment individuals approach folks with disprespect then act all justified because they got a nasty attitude back ? Is this how you would address a relative or mother under equal circumstances ? Bullcock. Some folks are just pricks in general and some, pricks about different people. In most cases it's the former but in others, it becomes clear when it's the latter. Growing up there was one or a few people that used to (for no apparent reason) call the police whenever went cycling through their neighborhood. (Obviously WLW listeners.) At some point had been pulled over more times on my bike than in my car. Some cops used to ask if it was my car. I would just look around the passenger compartment and respond with a proud "yes" as if surprised by the question. You took five minutes just to get out the car I know you ran the tags and registration. Had a mechanic doing a post-maintenance alignment make assumption that I had just gotten the vehicle. (no tinted windows or wheels -- stock)

I've been followed out of a specific Target store before and targetted 4 out of the last 5 times I was in there as a shop-lifter before quit going to that location. Negative profiling occurs even within one's own race. Metro bus policy allowed patrons to pay when getting on or exiting. Some people would pay as exiting but drivers would regularly demand I pay entering. I would point out that policy to one and the next time saw them they had an answer... "It's at the bus driver's descretion.". Is that supposed to be any better ?! he. Had one of those Moms growing up that would finish watcing an episode of Oprah and swear she had a druggy son. So yeah it goes on in all facets of society, but progressively less so as time progresses; and time certainly seems to progress far more slowly in select cities and areas than all others. So where you reside will be a big factor in whether and how much you observe or experience these kinds of attitudes and behaviors.

[Babar]

But ,,,heck! How the f**k does the neighbor NOT know the professor and ended up with calling 911. This confuses the shit out of me. You tell me this is NOT racial profiling.

Yeah, no idea. The neighbor who called the cops, was a Harvard fundraiser. So how did she not recognize one of the university's most famous and influential professors?

[Intuit]

They released the phone call today.  Sounds like a normal phone call.  She simply asked them to investigate.  Absolutely nothing wrong with what she did.  More power to her...

[Timster]

Other than my next door neighbors, I don't too many people a few doors down from me.  Some I believe moved out to the middle of nowhere or built a summer home here as a means to avoid dealing with their neighbors.  One of my neighbors and his wife are both professors at some college in Illinois, but I only talked to them once and would not be able to identify them if I saw them on the street.  I also have a Chicago TV news anchor and a political consultant who have lived down the road from me for years, yet never met them.  I'd recognize them because I've seen them on TV.

[EastTexas]

It is little more than a Harvard fundraiser Stunt!

[Babar]

Just read about the caller. Seems she never even mentioned race in the phone call, so I take back my comments about her.