DVD Burners / Playstation games

[Everlast80]

DVD Burners / Playstation games

[Everlast80]

I know very little about dvd burners and copyright protection on DVD's, and I was wondering if anyone could clarify a few things for me.  Is it possible to copy Playstation 2 games with a DVD burner?  I'm guessing they have some sort of copyright protection that prevents it, but is there any way to override it so I can make a backup copy of some of my ps/2 games?  No matter how careful I am the discs always seem to get horribly scratched.  Maybe some sort of software utility/patch?
Also, do some DVD movies have copyright protection?

[Reflex]

No you cannot and yes they do.  And for the moment it will stay that way.  Most use multiple layers for recording and that is something that consumer DVD burners aren't capable of doing yet.  The ethics of the issue are a completely different matter, I am still torn on that topic.  I know many people who sould simply use it for backups(good friend of mine has kids, they trash every CD they can get their hands on over time, he would desperatly like to be able to make backups of his DVD's).  On the other hand looking at how badly the PSX and Dreamcast were pirated...well....

[crosscourt]

Reflex the issue for me is very clear with so many family members in the gaming business.Console games are proprietary and should not be copied under any circumstances as based on the rights of the individual companies involved and the Federal Copyright laws.
Some pcgame makers have allowed in the past making copies of games as backup but if you read most of the agreements presently this is not the case with present games.
Now some companies if you send them the damaged games with proof of purchase will replace them at reduced cost and repair methods are available to fix many minor issues with game discs.
My advice to you is take care of your games but by no means make copies that you might share with friends or sell.This cheats the makers of these games of necessary revenue to continue making games and make a decent living plus is clearly illegal with todays laws.

**Discussion of the illegal copying and use of games really doesnt belong on this forum since we have clear rules against warez and copying onsite,
CC

[Reflex]

Crosscourt, you are incorrect.  There is a set of laws called 'Fair Use' that permits copying of anything you own, from cassettes to CD's to DVD's for the purpose of backups.  This ensure that if a device gets damaged a consumer does not have to go purchase another copy of something they already are legally licensed to view or listen to.  These laws are very absolute, and I gave a perfectly normal example in my post on the topic.  

The downside, of course, is that these laws are abused by a small minority of users.  Right now there is a debate on the topic and we will see what comes of it.  But currently it is perfectly legal to backup software/DVD's/Games that you already own a license to, and that is not changing anytime soon.

I also do not see what you mean by this post has no place here.  He did not ask how to warez software, or how to steal software.  He asked a perfectly legal question in a forum titled 'Off-Topic'.  If this dosen't qualify as Off Topic, I don't know what does.  Realize that I am one of the first to come down on piraters as you will notice in threads like the one with my response to the guy asking about Windows XP on multiple computers.  However what Everlast80 asked about is perfectly legal.

[crosscourt]

First off you are correct about the fair use laws and it does allow the archival backup of games for personal use and you can read more about it here:
www.idsa.com/faq.html and Im already aware of that.

This is an issue that is still being sorted out as we speak such as in this article:
www.usatoday.com/life/cyber/tech/review/crg832.htm


The fair use law section 107 does allow copying of computer software and other media but in the case of the consoles this is proprietary and the right to make games is licensed and for use only with that companies console.It is still considered legal to make copies for backup but the making of that copy allows it to be used on devices other than the console in question so there is a grey area involved in the law about this issue.This issue is being worked on as we speak thru precedents set with various cases this year about this problem.This is what Im referring to since his question was about psx2 games.

If we knew that every person who asks about making copies had just simple intentions that would be fine but that isnt the case most of the time.
Nothing personal toward Everlast but Ive seen many posts that were simple in nature that ended up with talk of illegal copies on other sites.One of which closed down a site before the mods spotted the situation and it got out of control.
My comments are from this point of view and I agree if this is for personal uses fine no problem but as usually happens games get copied and shared with friends and the problems begin.
The whole reason behind companies trying to go to great lengths to develop copy protection was to stop the huge flow of copied games and illegal distribution.Most companies still do not want copies made of their games and their warnings are included in most games.

I never said he couldnt post this topic. I made the warning to others who may want to discuss this issue for other reasons that its clearly against site rules and shouldnt be pursued as well as being an illegal activity.

As to whether my actions are appropriate thats up to the site management and Everlasts post is fine and my remarks are not necessarily intended
just for him but for anyone who made read this and get the idea its ok to copy and do whatever they like.

Bottomline is fair use laws have alot of problems many of which will change this year with actions from the IDSA and individual game companies such as Sony,CC

[Everlast80]

Thank you reflex.  Crosscourt - I don't believe I discussed anything illegal I was simply asking if something was possible.  I never said anything about giving, selling, loaning, or distributing copies to anyone.  I'm just sick of paying $50 or more for a game, and not being able to play it because it is scratched.  I think your private e-mail to me was sort of rude, and unnecessary.  I'm sorry if your family members in the gaming business lose money because of pirating, but I don't support or promote pirating in any way, nor did I mention it in my post.  I'm sorry if my topic offended you, but I thought this board was a place to freely discuss and share information.  Was I wrong?

[crosscourt]

It is a place to talk about topics freely but when posts are made in particular about copying playstation 2 games on a computer site it does lend itself to abit of suspicion and thats all I meant by my posts and email.
We get members that range in age from very young to adults and many times simple posts are really a search for the necessary expertise to use to copy games for the wrong purposes in the guise of curing simple problems with their discs.

No offense was intended nor was I accusing you of anything illegal but just trying to see if your request was on the level or not.You would be surprised how many times it isnt and problems have ensued.

I apologize for any remarks I made you found offensive but the intent remains that moderators will be very attentive to posts like this due to issues that have affected alot of sites recently.
Feel free to pm me if you would like to discuss it,have a good night,CC

[Reflex]

Since nothing illegal was shared, you are just fine.  Crosscourt does not completely understand what he is talking about, it is perfectly legal to copy a Playstation game, as long as you are the ONLY one using it.  There is no dispute on this.  In fact, current attempts by corporations to make CD's uncopyable are now coming under congressional and legal fire due to the fact that they are taking away the fair use rights we were granted by law.  

Don't get me wrong, I am all for copywrite holders getting their fair due, its why the Windows XP activation dosen't bother me.  But fortunatly Microsoft was a bit smarter about it than the RIAA and other groups, they protected the program, not the CD its on.  Very clever.  Perhaps Sony and others need to follow this example...

[PsychoSy]

Reflex-Croft, you're right about the "fair use" clause in copyright law. Too bad that the DMCA from 1998 renders it practically useless, among other things. It is downright unconstitutional because it infringes on a number of our Consitutional rights.

Check this story out...

Time To Rewrite The DMCA

As far as I'm concerned, my rights under the Constitution override any and every "EULA" I've ever "agreed" to. This land was founded on a nice principle called "Freedom of Choice" - notice it does not say "The Freedom To Limit One's Choices" and that's what the DMCA does. I'll even go so far as to say that all an EULA is is nothing more than a way for these businesses to coerce you into waivering your rights away.

For example, many EULAs say, "If you do not agree with the terms outlined in this agreement, return the product intact in its original packaging and all materials to the place you purchased it for a refund."
I like this.
It tries to make you feel all safe and secure when it reality, it's bogus. Why?

Most EULAs on software are INSIDE THE BOX, therefore in order to even read (much less agree) to the EULA, you have to crack open the plastic seal. WHOOPS!! Guess what? Once you crack that seal, you can't take the product back to the store for a refund because THEY have a policy that states "Opened items can only be exchanged for same item or for an item of equal value!"

In other words, they've stacked the deck. Retailers and businesses have rigged this whole system, not because of piracy...but as an insurance policy against something that could threaten them more than a handful of pirates. The DMCA, along with these EULAs, coupled with these return policies is their way of having an insurance policy against 1983 happening all over again - a complete crash in the whole market. With all of this intact, they can and will keep running all to the bank.

The IDSA says the video game industry is or will be worth $20 Billion dollars and they expect it to continue to grow. Of course it'll grow because these "rules", "policies" and "laws" insure their bottom line and leave us stuck with what we thought would be a pretty cool game or application but turned out to be nothing but buggy code on a coaster.

And don't give me the "go rent it at BlockBuster" excuse because Viacom, BlockBuster's parent company, makes sure that certain titles are only available in larger cities. To this day, my local BlockBuster does NOT have that new Dragon Warrior game for the PSX or even Tekken Tag Tournament for the PS2, thus it's not possible to rent EVERY SINGLE GAME from BlockBuster, no matter how popular or obscure it might be. They only get what their corporate office sends them, mainly because THEY have to pay anywhere from $120-200 PER COPY of any game, DVD, or VHS tape. Yeah, one copy of "Saving Private Ryan" is $100+ for BlockBuster but only $19.99 for us.

Now you know the real meaning behind the Wall Street Journal "adventures in capitalism" slogan!

[crosscourt]

You make the fair use law seem straightforward and easy and its far from that and is downright difficult to get a handle on.Companies may still have rights due to permissions and licensing which when proved can overcome the free use defense.
The most important point being part of the 4 points of free use.
4. If this use was widespread what effect would it have on the market for the original or for permissions?{economic impact}

My point here is very simple going beyond just this single post.When in doubt about whether something can be copied assume you need permission that in most cases is usually granted without a fee.
Free use is not assumed and it doesnt automatically give you the right to copy anything without prior permission.

Free use was originally intended  for educational use,libraries and other archival uses with companies and various research uses through set guidelines.
Guidelines have been around for years about this but through recent developments in the courts free use has extended well beyond those areas espeically with digital media that is still in the midst of emerging laws and guidelines.

I understand this issue fairly well considering how complex it really is but it remains to be seen where this will go in the future.Given the huge amount of articles,conferences,studies by congress and major studies by University law schools this issue is too diffcult to generalize. An individuals rights to copy may vary with the nature of the use,of what the
actual material is and how much it you will be using plus how that copying if done by others would affect the market.

If everyone copies programs just once the economic affect could be huge which is why this issue isnt so cut and dry beyond the basics of this single post.

My intent here was not to anger the poster nor get into legal discussions with Reflex or anyone else.
I dont see free use as a carte blanche to copy whatever or whenever you like without consideration for the intellectual rights involved.

This applies to material from a small independent game developer right up to Microsoft or Oracle.If I was in that position and I was developing that game I have every right to be paid for my work and expect others to respect those rights.Permission to use the material in question isnt alot to ask and in most cases is given freely unless allowed in the agreement for that software.

Again I apologize for any comments I made that offended anyone involved in this post but my attitude is simply very different in this area due to personal interests.Many companies suffer due to this situation and the $20 billion dollar number is very deceptive when development costs are so high as well as marketing and losses from piracy particularly on the pc game side.CC

[Reflex]

I think you just do not get it, CC.  No one has discussed selling, distributing, or warezing copywrited materials.  This discussion is about, and has been since the first post, copying software you already legally own for your own personal backup/archival purposes.  Not distributing.  Not selling.  Not posting online.  This is a legally protected activity under the Fair Use guidelines.  It does not economically impact corporations unless they are counting on reselling the same product to the same person multiple times.  

I don't understand why its difficult for you to get what we are talking about.  I am usually the first to call someone a thief when it comes to warez and illegal duplicating.  I have no sympathy for people going on about installing Office and WinXP on multiple computers.  That is theft.  But copying CD's and DVD's that you already own simply so that you don't ruin your originals is NOT illegal, and right now laws that make it illegal as a side effect(DMCA) are under fire and are being challenged.

This really isn't an argument or a debate, its just how it is.  

[crosscourt]

Yes I do get it Reflex but as usual we dont see things the same way and my perspective in regards to this is entirely different from yours so continuing this discussion is pointless,point taken!!!CC

[Reflex]

Why do I get the strange feeling that you think that CD-R's are inherantly evil?  Mebbe dual deck tapes too.  ;>

[crosscourt]

Actually I have no problem with the archival backup of pc software given the open nature of the pc model in general.I do believe licensing does provide limitations in some situations and may require permission otherwise thats fine.
I do see a problem with copying console games that are produced by a specific company for use on their console with licensing agreements maintained with various companies who pay for the ability to produce games for that console.
I also have problems with the casual copying to the extent that if its done by many people it can become an economic issue creating a market effect which changes the free use situation to some extent.

This link has a good article about this:
www.cdfreaks.com/news2.php3?ID=182

Heres an example of a thread on another site about a casual question and read everyones reaction:
www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,2084815~root=ps2~mode=flat

Heres another article with a similar point of view to this thread:
www.cncnz.com/features/articles/191201_21c_bigbrother.shtml

The legality and the reality of the situation  are two entirely different subjects.You are exactly right about the legality of the issue but Im dealing with the reality.Should forums provide any info about copying of software,many dont and delete threads dealing with any issues of this nature.Is a simple thread to be considered just that or
are any requests to be seen as potential piracy issues?The thread at cncnz talks about this abit.

I will clear this up with management myself to prevent any further problems but my main concern is to make sure VH doesnt end up in a legal situation accidentally.

The forum I use to work at 2 years ago was shut down because a poster asked about copying Psx games and he later was sharing discs and info by pm with other members.He too used the I scratch my discs alot post that was very tame but it turned into a complete mess.

Im not trying to point fingers at anyone nor get overbearing about this issue nor argue with you about the finer points of Copyright law.

This is a valid concern on sites and the issues arent entirely cut and dry and thats where Im coming from with this and other threads like  this onsite.
Their have been many warez and borderline/casual posts up to this point and all have been handled but unfortuantely this one became abit complicated.
I hope Ive cleared this up abit without making matters worse but regardless of my good or bad handling of this all sites will reserve the right to limit or stop posts regarding this type of issue with Anandtech a good example,CC

[Reflex]

Um, exactly what makes backing up a CD for your computer any different than a CD for a Playstation?  Both would be backed up for the exact same purposes and both would have been legally purchased first.  The format is identical, the media is identical, the only difference is one says 'Licensed by Sony' and the other does not.

[PsychoSy]

The conflict of the issue here is interest, really.

Businesses want copy protection to protect their investments.
Consumers want ways to circumvent that copy protection in order to protect their investment.

So what we have is this system with the DMCA, EULAs, and retail return policies is it automatically assumes that every customer is nothing more than a thief - a pirate - a can not be trusted at all. Period. I seriously believe that these corporations made up this whole "piracy is our concern" just to distract the consumer long enough to suckle that $50 from them. Their concern is $$$, and granted piracy does make them lose a good chunk of money, but I do not see that as an excuse to infringe or otherwise limit the rights of the consumer. In fact, I think its something they say for public relations reasons. "We don't like making these stiff rules but the pirates made us do it..." It sounds so logical. It gives us the illusion that they are on our side. But they're not. There's only one side to them, and that's money. By locking away the options of the consumer, they are effectively enganging in extortion under the guise of piracy. They realized long ago that fighting piracy is a losing battle and there's no way they'll ever recoup the lost revenue from these guilty pirates so they stacked the deck against the honest and faithful consumer by instituting these rules and policies to offset their losses to a degree. In other words, the consumer is getting unfairly, unconstitutionally punished for the actions of these pirates, judged as nothing more than "thiefs" by proxy without any due process whatsoever, and the result is they still get to run all the way to the bank regardless. In other words, they act pissed off about piracy but relax a bit knowing that the customer is being gouged for it in the long run and that offsets their losses.

And secretly, although they'd never admit it publically, they actually like piracy and even manufacture products to encourage it. If it were not for the reproduction criminals, life would not be as rosy for them. So they set up these rules and regulations to act like they are trying to compete or be against the reproduction criminals, market and manufacture products that encourage it the likelyhood of these acts of reproduction just to make life easier for them - the business criminals.

Look at Sony. Big corporate conglomerate. They own movie studios, recording studios and record lables, produce TV and game shows, make the PlayStation series of gaming consoles, TV sets, VCRS, boom boxes, home theatre stereo equipment, yet also market and manufacture such things as blank VHS tapes, blank high grade chromium oxide cassette tapes, recordable CD-R and CDRW discs and even their CRX family of CD recorders - all of these products Sony manufactures and markets explicity for the purpose of reproduction for the conveinence of the consumer...

...and yet they whine and cry about piracy?!?!

Sounds awfully fruity and downright hypocritical to me!

And I don't feel sorry for them one bit.  

[Everlast80]

Wow.  Maybe I should have posted my question in the debate area?  I didn't mean to bring up an issue that would start such an argument.  I did end up learning quite a bit more than I expected to, and I'm sure others did too.  I appreciate everyone's willingness to help answer my questions, you have been very helpful.  I hope to continue to use this board to learn and share information, and I will be more careful what topics I bring up.  To avoid future confusion, I have added a friendly disclaimer to my posts ;-)  

[Gurm]

Well, to answer the original poster!

Yes, you can copy your PS2 game, be it DVD or CD.

Yes, you heard me right. You can, it's easy. There is ZERO protection on a PS2 DVD game - it's all just one big ol' honkin' data directory.

HOWEVER, PS2 discs are physically modified. Hence you will need a Game Shark and something called a MOD chip in order to play your wonderful DVD copy. Those things ARE beyond the purview of this board. However, if you wish to learn more, a good place to start might be:

http://www.consolesource.com

- Gurm

[PsychoSy]

Despite my rantings, I don't get into the piracy scene. To me, it just a big waste of time. In the hour or two it might take me to snag a Dreamcast CD-image off some crazy, far flung, loaded-with-18-popup-adds website, that's an hour or two better spent playing RTCW and besides Dreamcast games are $12-20 tops at the cost of 7-10 mile drive so spending $20 and a 10 minute drive is much more conveinient and the idea of not having my happy carcass tossed so deep into prison the warden has to feed me with slingshot is a nice perk! I've once spent 9 months in a juvenile lockup years ago and the boss repeatedly told me, "If you don't like it here, then don't come back!" Wise words, indeed.

Now CC, hey I didn't mean to offend you at all (you've been awfully silent) and I understand how you feel since you've got relatives that invest their blood, sweat and tears into the gaming industry. If it isn't the pirates taking food from their tables, is their corporate bosses forcing them to "meet that deadline" regardless if the code isn't up to snuff and turning them into borderline homocidal cranky insomniacs. I think that the majority of game developers don't like the idea of customers being forced to keep something of theirs that they weren't sastisfied with but they can only write the software. In essence, between their publisher and the pirates, game developers are beset by manipulation on all sides. However, despite all of the respect I have for game developers, the only thing that really matters to me in the long run is the same thing that matters to their boss - the bottom line. In other words, as long as I hold the wallet, I call the shots and MY terms are the only important ones. They will do whatever it takes to protect their interests and likewise, so will I. Pretty soon, this whole copy-protection/duplication/copyright infringment/DMCA stuff will get ugly. Too many customers will get sick and tired of their strong-arming tactics and the whole debacle will come to roost, and these corporations and Washington had better realize that they might be able to cram 10-20 pirates into jail  here and there but if 100,000, 500,000, or even 1,000,000 or more angry consumers decide they will not tolerate it any longer and "revolt". What I mean by this "revolt" term is these people will engage in actions these businessmen deem criminal just because they can. Imagine these people demonstrating right in front of Sony headquarters blaring their personal mix CD on a boombox held over their head, some playing their "archival" copy of a videogame on their laptops, and some dumping their entire CD or game collection right on their front lawns. You might thing that's a notion right of a fairy tale but I think it'll happen sooner or later.

Sooner or later, the chickens will come home to roost. The facade is slowly cracking, and something must give. The consumers have given up enough. It's high time these coporations and Washington back down. If they don't, well they better not complain about the lack of a turnaround come election time.

If the citizens feel that their rights don't count, then what about their votes?

And on that, I'll bow out of this debate. I've said plenty.

[ScutMonkey]

I got your email CC, and I understand your concern.  I can easily see how a thread like this can promote warez via PMs and I really hope that is not what's happening.  If it is, you all know what happens if you get caught.  You've been warned.  However, I'm not going to stiffle conversations on a topic when they're perfectly legit as this one seems to be.

Not only that, I'll add my two cents.  While I'm not a software developer, I am a musician and I have very mixed emotions about the whole thing.  If my music was popular enough to matter, I wouldn't necessarily want people ripping me off.  However, we currently give all of our music away for free as it is.  I don't think the music/software/movie industries are approaching this the right way.  What I've noticed from observing friends that buy and friends that warez is that the people that warez never would have purchased in the first place.  Generally speaking, they can't afford it, never could, and are therefore not part of the market anyway.  I rip every single cd I buy off to mp3 so I can listen to it on my computer.  I've been doing this for well over a year now and I still purchase just as many cds as before.  I buy all the games I play.  I rent or buy all the movies I watch.  What gets me really aggravated is when the fair use of that purchased media is thwarted.  Right now my pet peeve is macrovision on DVD.  I built a media box to play mp3s and dvds in my living room.  However, because my TV and Video output are macrovision impaired, I can't watch DVDs on my TV without installing software to get around it.  This is CLEARLY illegal and does nothing but make me angry at the movie industry.  They have restricted my ability to watch a DVD that I paid for on my system of choice.  What they need to do is stop wasting their money fighting it.  They will not win and in the end the legitimate consumer is punished with higher prices to pay for their lawsuits.

Did tapes destroy the music industry?  How about minidisk players, cds, DATs, etc....
Did the VCR destroy the movie industry?
Did the CDRW destroy the gaming industry?

The answer is no to all of the above.  

I have never talked to an active warez user that could actually afford the high prices for the games they've stolen.  $50 was two weeks worth of groceries to me when I was in college and that's where the majority of this is happening.  I used to copy cds to tapes when I was in High School because I was making $3.35 an hour at Burger King and couldn't afford the real thing.  When I could, I actually went out and purchased a fair amount of the stuff I dupped.  I have over 150 tapes and 300 cds in my collection.  I had napster and I have morpheus.  I try stuff out and then I buy it.  I have 17 "Napster" cds and counting.  These are cds that I NEVER would have bought if I hadn't downloaded tracks and tried it out first.  I heard about these bands by word of mouth because they can't get played on the radio.  I'm not buying something I've never heard.  In these cases, the record company owes Napster and Morpheus thanks.  They sold albums.  They need to quit working against a medium that isn't hurting them.

I just don't believe that people with money are going to expend the enormous effort it takes to warez stuff, when they can go down to Blockbuster and pay $3 to rent it for a couple nights.  Their only going to watch it once or twice anyway, so why bother?  As far as mp3s go, I can never get complete albums, or if I do each track is ripped at different qualities and it's so uneven it's annoying, so if I want it all I have to purchase the cd anyways.  Plus, MP3s just aren't the same quality as CDs and on a high end stereo I want the real deal.

[Reflex]

I'm with you on that, Scut.  I have a HUGE collection of MP3's, and I am proud to say that I ripped each and every one of them myself.  The reason is that I use them for Dj work and as a result I had to be certain of their quality on auditorium sized sound systems.  When I work I am covered by an ASCAP/BMI license, meaning that I can legally play everything I have.  Of course if it was up to the record industry they would remove my rights to have the media in this format and I would be back to a dual CD deck.  Horribly inconvenient.  I used to hate hauling around a massive CD case with a bunch of equip.  Now I just take a computer.  ;>  Soon a laptop.  Much better system.

The assumption that the only reason people would want to copy store bought media is that they are pirates is rediculous and unfounded.  I have met a couple rich kids who still warez everything they can, but they are the exception, not the rule.  Most people I know who warez are kids, either in body or mind, and would not have purchased the product anyways.  That dosen't mean that what they are doing is ok, I actively discourage warez at every turn, however I do not believe in overreacting to people trying to utilize their fair use rights.  The more I think about it, the more I like the Windows XP method, I originally hated it, but when you think about it it is the ultimate compromise: You can copy the XP CD all you want, but the license is only good for your one system.  Pretty neat and dosen't block my rights to backing up my software CD's.

[Everlast80]

Reflex, I definately agree with you on the XP method.  Honestly, it would make my job (lan admin) a lot easier if more programs were like that.  So much of my time has been wasted dealing with licensing issues, because many users on my network don't even understand that you can't just install a program on as many computers as you want.  I also like the "dongle" method used by some programs, where you have to have that little pass-thru parallel port device.  If only all software vendors had used these type of methods from the beginning, I wouldn't have to waste my time constantly making sure we're legal.  I think these methods are a good compromise for the "pirating vs. backing up" issue.  Software vendors get to avoid piracy, people can still backup their media, and my job will be) a whole lot easier (you wouldn't believe how many marketing people love to run around wildly, installing Corel Draw on every machine in the building).  I don't see any real downsides to these methods, does anyone else?      

[ricardjs]

since this looks like the appropriate thread for my questions, here it goes...

I have 2 PCs at my home, and i'm the only one to use them. One of them is the system u see in the signature, and the other one is using Linux at the moment. Nevertheless, a few months ago, i was thinking of installing MSOffice on it along with Windows. Anyway, I own a copy of Windows98 SE (my previous OS), so, i have no doubt i can use it on the other PC, since on my primary PC i now use XP. But, is it illegal if i install Office on my other PC? Or do i really need to buy 2 copies for me??? It's i and only i who owns both computers, and i who is using them.

I'm not even gona use them both at the same time, is just that, id i'm in one computer in my bedroom, i don't want to go upstairs to type something quick in word...

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Ric.

[Gurm]

Although the companies might want you to think otherwise, current US copyright law holds that you can certainly install on both computers, but legally can't use the same program on different machines at the same time.

That answer your question?

- Gurm