Nice Epia M find...

[kami333]

I'm starting to get it now, so many confusing standards  Gotten about half way through the thread.

I'm looking at a Libretto (it would be old school pentium so pre1999) screen, seems they have a 30pin plug that also includes the blacklight power.  So, assuming that I isolate the 20 needed for the LVDS signal, is that all I need other than power and shielding issue?  And the connector on the Epia, that's 20 pins?

[MrFestive]

If the screen does use LVDS and you are able to locate the correct pins on the Libretto, just wire them directly to the Epia M header (it *should* work).  Of course, without something to power the backlight, you won't see anything on the screen at all, even if it is working correctly.  You might be able to rip the inverter out of the Libretto as well and power that seperately to drive the backlight.  Could be a fun project.

[lemming]

Here's the email response I got back from Xenarc today:

"You should ask Via if the LVDS connector works with Panasonic EDTCB18 because that is the LCD module we use inside our monitor.  The module does have a 40 pins cable.  But then you’ll have to take the monitor apart and use the LCD module only. "

[Jimmy Hu, Xenarc Technologies Corp.,  jhu@xenarc.com ,  www.xenarc.com ]

So that's the LCD model in the Xenarc.  Couldn't find it on the Panasonic website but am rushin' a bit to get out the door...!  Am emailing http://earthlcd.com/  to find out a bit more about that, and also other options using LCD panels.  I'll include the Epia M  LVDS pinout diagram from the Manual -- it may help.

Looking at Mark F's mod, he connected the Xenarc power cable to the Shuttles secondary power connector, close tothe main power connector on the board  (see
http://www.sudhian.com/docs.cfm/id/266/pid/973.sud )

The Epia M doesn't have such a connector, but maybe you could link direct to the connectors from the PSU, one or two of which are often unused.  I'll have to check out voltage specs etc.

[Connor]

Pre 1999 80% of al Laptop interface were supplied by National Semiconductor
Look at the Laptop board where the cable meets the the board and see if there is one or two
identical chips with the National Semiconductor logo. If so take the chip number and run it
through the search engine at www.national.com

That will confirm whether  or not it is LVDS As for the Libretto it will be
LVDS because it's a toshiba Laptop. (Mine is a sattelite) if you want to
confirm a specific version see  LCD specifications

As for the back light most LCD screens for laptops or external use will house
the inverter seperate from the mainboard and most likely beside the LCD unit.

The external displays we have here take their power from either the +5 or the +3.3
Volt lines in the LVDS Specification and run the inverter off of those.  

I think the LVDS header in the epia is 40 Pins.  

[kami333]

Now to go find a Libretto with a TFT screen... mine is the earliest model, didn't even come out in the US, so it has a DSTN screen

I just won a ebay auction, 9" LCD, 99% sure it won't work but for $15 I couldn't resist, I have something to take apart and see how it works now.  Might even be worth looking into getting one of those controller cards...

[Connor]

DSTN is to do with the technology driving the output
not transmitting the signal AFAIK?

So the libretto could still possibly use LVDS
My Sattelite is late mode 486 and appears to be LVDS
and checking the closest spec on lcdspecifications.com
has a LVDS input.

[walibe]

Epia M just apeared on my shopping list.

[Connor]

hmm, note to self:
next time dismantling laptop notice little
sticker covering screw hole and don't rip
case apart. Just in case you need to rebuild
it sometime.

[kami333]

lol, what are you going to use a 486 for anyways?  Actually you could use it as a router, then you wouldn't need a monitor anyways.

Reason I don't want to use DSTN is because I won't be able to watch dvds and divx on it.  Although I guess I could add another small LCD for watching video and use the DSTN one just for controlling.

[Connor]

ahh, makes sense now, no gaming either then.
Mine was the same, as is my thinkpad which I've replaced it with.

I was actually intending to use the 486 as a Projector panel
Set it up through the network, remove the back light and sit
it on an OHP.

The other thing I've just found are internal to external
LVDS adaptors: See Here

It means I can use the External LVDS monitors on the Epia M
Hopefully Via will release a similar module cheaply as well,
need to wait and see.

[Connor]

Could be a slight problem here,

I just saw a review of an Epia M on a french website and the LVDS port was not included
on the board, could be that it's just a reference sample or model without that option.

It's not all loss though, the board is wired to take a connector in that space so
you could solder it in yourself and unlike the DOC the board should be ready to
take it.

I saw a Via site using google which suggested the eden based Epia -M's will have it
whilst the C3's won't. Hope that both will, at the moment I'm trying to talk to their Sales
manager in the UK  to get pricing for C3 Versions with  LVDS ports, but he's away till
wednesday.

[lemming]

Connor, copy of email I've sent to the UK sales manager:



<< Further to my email below, there's been a lot of discussion on the Sudhian and other forums about linking PCs to lap-top screens.  This is exactly what the EpiaM should be able to do easily using LVDS, and I presume this feature was integrated largley for OEMs, although home-enthusiasts will also be interested.  Is there a technical document relating to this?  I need to know: >>




<< 1.  the spec of the LVDS transmitter on the mobo, as this needs to be matched to an LVDS receiver on the LCD module >>




<< 2.  the BIOS set-up / timings on the signal via the graphics section to LVDS >>




<< Even knowing these, I need to get a cable that will match the pins out from the EpiaM to the pins in to the LCD unit.  What will be very helpful here is finding out if the EpiaM LVDS was designed for any particular make/models of LCD?  Could you arrange for the technical spec on this to be forwarded to me and I can post it on to the relevant forums? >>



The EpiaM specs say the LVDS connector is optional, so maybe these versions will follow through later.  Useful links Connor, very many thanks, and I've posted at the thread you suggested before on the DIYAudio board and that discussion still continues.

[Connor]

Yeah, I have to agree
this isn't an optional thing like disk on chip was
This is the sort of thing that people want to do
with SFF pc's. and can be seen in many conversions
left right and center. If Via can supply the hardware
to make this easier, more compact and a lot prettier
than looping cables out the back and back in again
then they really should. As an OEM integrator at the moment
it's a very specific requirement for me that I can do
it and don't have to order 1000+ MB's in order to do
it. If this is a requirement they make then perhaps the
requirement will come for a group buy, involving a lot
of people in the modding world who want this sort of thing.

[mudboy]

SilentPC Review EPIA M 9000 Review

[Connor]

Yep, port's missing on their test version as well,

need to speak to Graham Jackson tomorrow and get this sorted out.

[lemming]

Yeah Connor, let's keep onto this, I'll let you know if he responds to me.

[TheTick]

I didn't see this posted but there is a preorder for these at Outpost.
Epia M9000 with C3 933. $160 US is not too bad I don't think, it will be
fun to play around with.  May try my hand at a homemade acrylic case...

Epia M9000 Preorder

[Gamer]

Anandtech has a news blurb on their web site. It gives the impression that the EPIA-M is shipping as of today.

[Connor]

Rapid IT, one of the two main distributers in the UK
say it isn't shipping for another two weeks.

But then I've bee shown a french website which
has it for sale so who am I to argue?

although it wouldn't be the first time I've tried
to buy something that wasn't available yet but
was shown as for sale in an online shop.

Freecom are especially bad at it.

[JamesL]

Outpost.com still has it as preorder.

[Connor]

Spoke to Graham Jackson Today,

Currently the board although supporting LVDS has no LVDS driver (Hardware rather than Software)
The Port on the Board Outputs a TTL signal which can be used to drive (some) Laptop Displays.

Via are currently working on a module which will allow this Port to drive a LVDS
Flatscreen. This is rather odd though because the Pinout is the same as numerous
Laptop LCD screens perhaps he other thread was wrong and LVDS isn't used
in Laptops at all, but a TTL signal is sent out and LVDS is only used for remote screens

Anyways, the first retail versions of the board will not have the port till VIA make up
their mind about what they are doing. Later versions will come with it as Standard, and
you will have the option of attaching the module to make that work.

[lemming]

Just spoke to Graham too.  Didn't know the arcane world of mobo design entailed incorporating components that no-one on the design team is really quite sure how they can be used...!

The module, when it comes out, hopefully in weeks (not months or not at all) will be a small unit with a few driver chips that plugs into the LVDS (ie. TTL) connector and will be designed for a selection of LVDS-capable screens.  I assume their underlying thoughts was that this will be useful for system-builders, who would then source a compatible LCD from the list of LCDs that the module supports.  I assume...

Hopefully this will also resolve the BIOS timings issue, so that it really becomes a plug-and-play solution, and opens up a world of possibilities.  If not then I'll just grab the Xenarc touch-screen and integrate that, using the external VGA port.  Seems a shame but there ya go.

Useful thoughts from Remp at DIYaudio board on BIOS:

"We are not into motherboards here. What we are looking for is a SIMPLE solution to connecting a cheap Laptop LCD which many were LVDS and newer units still are, to a driving source either a PC or a stand alone board.  Reason for not going the Motherboard route is BIOS needed to control LVDS laptop Screens would have been in the original Laptop and probably known only to the Laptop manufacturer.  Therefore likely to be hard to find/duplicate. Also a lot of guys already have a good hometheatre setup with good video cards and probably not interested in changing to another MB at present

"So far after bypassing all the death merchants both here and at EIO.com who say its too hard, its impossible, it won't work, we are wasting our time etc etc we have achieved a measure of succes by finding Spectrah.com who offer video cards and stand alone cards with good specifications particularly their ARV-468 which takes in DVI, VGA, S-video and composite video and puts out LVDS and TTL. The major plus with these units are they have their own setup BIOS on the boards catering for a variety of screen sizes/resolutions. We have also found the DICON range of stand alone cards with 16 BIOS settings but only takes in VGA.

"The LVDS is a simple concept using just 3 cable pairs to transmit 24 bit colour to high resolution screens plus a clock pair, and started off with a 20 pin Hirose connector. I have noticed that as transmitting distances got longer and longer more variants of the LVDS system cropped up eg LVDS 01, 02, 03. Also 30 pin and 40 pin connectors are now being used."

[lemming]

Remp over at DIYAudio forum has put a few really useful posts up explaining TTL, LVDS and the potential for using cheap laptop screens.  
Check it out!