if kerry wins...

[JungleJoe]

Be kind. He included a disclaimer... see?

"HE'S NOT BUSH!! That's the one and only reason. At least that I can see"

The blind cant lead the blind, dont worry.

[Wrawrat]

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Originally posted by: JungleJoe
Actually he (Bush) LOST by about 500K votes. The moronic, antiquated Electoral College is to blame for that.

Yeah I just did a search and noticed that mistake. I don't live in the US so I didn't followed the recounting and all that stuff as much as you probably did. Sorry.

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On top of all that, neither GWB nor Gore was an incumbent for that election.

I corrected this in another post.

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I like how people offer opinions on stuff they dont know.

Sorry but it's not like you are that better...

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If everyone who voted for bush did that, the country would be better off. Although Id feel bad for the Canucks, getting an influx of gun toting, red-neck Christian evangelists. Wouldn’t stop me from laughing though… they have had it easy, only having to put up with retarded Quebecois.

I wonder who is retarded here between you and me. Do you at least know some to have this opinion on them? Now, I do believe that most people here are retarded but I made my own opinion on them (not "us" as I obviously don't consider myself retarded) by living here for more than 21 years, not by what I have read/watched in the newspapers/on TV or by dealing with one or two kiddiots from Quebec on the Internet.

Come on. I'm pretty sure that you believe that some europeans are stupid for putting all americans in the same bag (e.g. believing they are all gun toting, red-neck [& etc.] Christian evangelists). Why are you doing the same?

Of course, you are free to believe what you want. It doesn't make you right though... and yes, I admit that I wasn't with my numbers.

[JungleJoe]

Because... and say it with me..."it was a joke". That doesn’t make the FACTS that I stated any less poignant, nor the anti-Kerry remarks any less myopic. I though that much was obvious but apparently clarification was necessary. Done and done.

Also, ignorance isn’t a defense... but I agree; if you don’t live in this country that’s not exactly something you might be following.

Edit: also I wasnt JUST talking to you about the ignorance remark. There were a few people who quoted you on that same topic/"fact".

 

[Wrawrat]

Oh but I didn't bitched about the facts, just about that part. I guess I just still don't understand american sarcasm.

And I didn't really wanted to give myself an excuse. I had seen the numbers some time ago on the FEC's website but it looks like I had mixed both candidates. Or maybe I just didn't cared as candidates here can lose an election even if they win the popular vote: it's the number of seats that matters... Anyway, thanks for correcting me. I don't think I'm always right.

[JungleJoe]

its all good.

[Mefistofeles]

Although Kerry is different from Bush on some issues for the most part I see him as the continuing the same bankrupt policies that Bush initiated:

1.  More record budget deficits
2.  Tax hikes; yes I do believe that the Bush would have to institute tax hikes eventually.
3.  Out of control social security and medicare spending
4.  More trade wars with our commerical partners
5.  Long term involvement in the middle east
6.  Renewing the Patriot Act.
7.  Less traction and more "talk" about education
8.  More defense spending

Its difficult to see how either man is different on any of the aformentioned issues.  

[JungleJoe]

"7. Less traction and more "talk" about education "

LOL the Republican Party has been trying to disband the department of education since its inception. "Its run by the teachers union, its EVIL!!!!" heh.

[VorLonUK]

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if kerry wins...

I'm moving to America

[pipperoni]

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Originally posted by: eze
i'm moving to canada.

If eze moves to Canada....


....I'm moving to Iceland!

[Xookliba]

You can tell it's an election year.  Things are getting really nasty here on Sudhian lately.  I have been avoiding these threads like the plague, but I always feel compelled to post about this topic:

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Originally posted by: JungleJoe
"7. Less traction and more "talk" about education "



LOL the Republican Party has been trying to disband the department of education since its inception. "Its run by the teachers union, its EVIL!!!!" heh.

The Federal Govt. has NO place in education.  It never has.  In case you haven't noticed, this is a relatively recent invention by the Republicans, meant to distract from more pressing issues in which they were taking a beating (in the Clinton days).  Education boards are run by States, schools are funded 99.9% by States, therefore (wisely) States have always had the say in running them.  Where are the people now who were whining about "States' Rights" on Gay Marriage and the like?  The Fed is in YOUR business, telling you how to run YOUR schools, in YOUR backyard.  You all should be pissed.

The Republicans have not indeed attempted to get out of the business of education policy, quite the contrary.  They may want to get rid of the existing office as JungleJoe suggests, but they will supplant it with one of their own devising.  They have ushered in an era in which we are spending BILLIONS of dollars for things like testing and accountability, which are having virtually no impact on education in the country (duh, did anybody think it actually would?)  I don't know about you, but that money could do a lot of other things, even if it just went to pay for an actual PROGRAM at a school somewhere.  It's absolutely unbelievable.  I fervently hope that, if elected, Kerry does not take us down that hopeless path any longer.

[ScutMonkey]

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Originally posted by: JungleJoe
"7. Less traction and more "talk" about education "

LOL the Republican Party has been trying to disband the department of education since its inception. "Its run by the teachers union, its EVIL!!!!" heh.

Under GWB Education spending has increased over 60% from what it was under Clinton.  If you don't believe me, look it up.  

The "No Child Left Behind" act was cowritten with Big Spendin' Liberal Teddy Kenedy.  Kennedy's attacking it now because it's an election year and there's no amount to high to spend on education, even when it's throwing money down a hole.

[ScutMonkey]

Quote
Originally posted by: Xookliba
You can tell it's an election year.  Things are getting really nasty here on Sudhian lately.  I have been avoiding these threads like the plague, but I always feel compelled to post about this topic:

Quote
Originally posted by: JungleJoe
"7. Less traction and more "talk" about education "

LOL the Republican Party has been trying to disband the department of education since its inception. "Its run by the teachers union, its EVIL!!!!" heh.

The Federal Govt. has NO place in education.  It never has.  In case you haven't noticed, this is a relatively recent invention by the Republicans, meant to distract from more pressing issues in which they were taking a beating (in the Clinton days).  Education boards are run by States, schools are funded 99.9% by States, therefore (wisely) States have always had the say in running them.  Where are the people now who were whining about "States' Rights" on Gay Marriage and the like?  The Fed is in YOUR business, telling you how to run YOUR schools, in YOUR backyard.  You all should be pissed.

Rank and file republicans are NOT happy with GWB's education policy.  Quite frankly, they're seething over it because if you make it a state's rights issue small pockets of republicans can have a huge influence on the local level when it comes to education policy.  They can pick and choose curriculum by dominating local school boards.  This has been their policy for years, with the Christian Coalition and Ralph Reed at the forefront.

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The Republicans have not indeed attempted to get out of the business of education policy, quite the contrary.  They may want to get rid of the existing office as JungleJoe suggests, but they will supplant it with one of their own devising.  They have ushered in an era in which we are spending BILLIONS of dollars for things like testing and accountability, which are having virtually no impact on education in the country (duh, did anybody think it actually would?)  I don't know about you, but that money could do a lot of other things, even if it just went to pay for an actual PROGRAM at a school somewhere.  It's absolutely unbelievable.  I fervently hope that, if elected, Kerry does not take us down that hopeless path any longer.

Don't count on it.  In the 2000 election the teacher's unions taken as a whole were among the top ten campaign contributors and guess who they backed?  Gore.  The Dems have the teacher's unions in their pockets and the teacher's unions are advocating MORE federal involvement because they want more money.  It's a pretty terrible situation all the way around.

[GonnaBiteIt]

gun toting, red-neck Christian evangelists <-- Doesn't that describe a democrat?  Why whould they leave if Kerry won the election?

If Kerry wins and he brings our troops home from Iraq kissing the peoples asses and apologizing for the "atrocities" of war then it will be a sad sad day indeed.  Regardless of why we went to Iraq we are there now.  We sent a harsh scary message to the Middle East.  The United States will bring the War on Terror to you if you try to bring it to us.  It won’t stop the extremists but it will get us better cooperation from those who rule the next time it happens.

We removed a tyrannical leader from power and have a nation of warlords fighting to take his place.  If we back out now without stabilizing the country as we are doing in Afghanistan still; then all we are doing is sending a message that this country is too weak to finish what it started.  I would like to know what the perception on the War in Iraq from the people who live in New York City.  You can’t look at the skyline there without a constant reminder of how the War on Terror has changed this country.  I guess for the rest of us it’s just easier to forget.

I already know the lame comeback.  9/11 had nothing to do with Iraq.  To that I say, it must be nice to look at the world so black and white.  The War on Terror is not a war on Osama or Al Qaeda; it’s much more complicated than that.  However, I lack the access to the President or his advisors to tell you what his agenda is.  I rather just have faith in the wisdom of my leader and the changes I see happening.

If Kerry wins and we finish the job in Iraq and leave a country to stand for itself than by all means he will be a great leader in my eyes.  Even if his policies against terrorism are a little weak kneed.  I say if because I don’t know him or his advisors either.  Perhaps it’s that I just have a little faith in my country because of or in spite of its leader.  In the end I believe its long term trends that change countries and not its short term leaders.

[VorLonUK]

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Originally posted by: GonnaBiteIt
gun toting, red-neck Christian evangelists <-- Doesn't that describe a democrat?  Why whould they leave if Kerry won the election?



If Kerry wins and he brings our troops home from Iraq kissing the peoples asses and apologizing for the "atrocities" of war then it will be a sad sad day indeed.  Regardless of why we went to Iraq we are there now.  We sent a harsh scary message to the Middle East.  The United States will bring the War on Terror to you if you try to bring it to us.  It won’t stop the extremists but it will get us better cooperation from those who rule the next time it happens.



We removed a tyrannical leader from power and have a nation of warlords fighting to take his place.  If we back out now without stabilizing the country as we are doing in Afghanistan still; then all we are doing is sending a message that this country is too weak to finish what it started.  I would like to know what the perception on the War in Iraq from the people who live in New York City.  You can’t look at the skyline there without a constant reminder of how the War on Terror has changed this country.  I guess for the rest of us it’s just easier to forget.



I already know the lame comeback.  9/11 had nothing to do with Iraq.  To that I say, it must be nice to look at the world so black and white.  The War on Terror is not a war on Osama or Al Qaeda; it’s much more complicated than that.  However, I lack the access to the President or his advisors to tell you what his agenda is.  I rather just have faith in the wisdom of my leader and the changes I see happening.



If Kerry wins and we finish the job in Iraq and leave a country to stand for itself than by all means he will be a great leader in my eyes.  Even if his policies against terrorism are a little weak kneed.  I say if because I don’t know him or his advisors either.  Perhaps it’s that I just have a little faith in my country because of or in spite of its leader.  In the end I believe its long term trends that change countries and not its short term leaders.

I didn't think the US would pull out of Iraq (until deemed fit) whoever wins the election?

[GonnaBiteIt]

Then by all means let the elections commence.  Oh wait, it's not November yet.  Damn this is going to be a long few months.  I think Sudhian needs to break Politics into it own section.  After all if Apple get's one, why not Kerry?

[fall-apart]

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Originally posted by: JungleJoe
That doesn’t make the FACTS that I stated any less poignant, nor the anti-Kerry remarks any less myopic.

Yeah, beacuse anyone who's anti-Kerry is myopic, but being anti-Bush is to see the "truth".  Gimme a break - John Effin' Kerry's record on votes alone should cause anyone who supports the Democrats to pause for a second.  You cannot count on the guy to follow through.

[Xookliba]

Quote
Originally posted by: ScutMonkey
Don't count on it.  In the 2000 election the teacher's unions taken as a whole were among the top ten campaign contributors and guess who they backed?  Gore.  The Dems have the teacher's unions in their pockets and the teacher's unions are advocating MORE federal involvement because they want more money.  It's a pretty terrible situation all the way around.

I fear that you are correct.  I agree that both sides of the aisle are guilty and they all need to get out of education.  I really didn't mean to make it sound as if it is a Repub. only issue (I did sound like that), but I really meant that they started this whole mess.  Unfortunately, the Dems feel like they have to finish it!

Truth is, school systems would have a lot more free dollars if they didn't have to foot the bill for all these asinine ideas that the Fed comes up with.  "No Child Left Untested" is being paid for by the States.  That makes it an issue that the Fed is mandating how a State spends its education dollars.  That is wrong.

Incidentally, I DO believe your point.  Back in '93 (I think) I heard MO Lt. Gov. Roger Wilson (A Dem) give a speech to local teachers about forming what he called a PAC (Political Activist Committee) to influence the legislators.  It seems that a PAC could contribute to political campaigns without violating spending limits.  It was a very "slippery" talk.

[eze]

stop spreading lies about dubya

[ScutMonkey]

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Originally posted by: VorLonUK

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I didn't think the US would pull out of Iraq (until deemed fit) whoever wins the election?

That completely depends on how much that President lets the Press influence his decision to stay.  The doom and gloom of the American press isn't going to stop if GWB gets the boot regardless of the realities of the situation.  Iraq is this generation of the press' Vietnam and they're going to ride it for all it's worth.  If the President, whoever that may be, wants to stay in Iraq he's going to have to weather the media storm.

[VorLonUK]

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Originally posted by: ScutMonkey

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Originally posted by: VorLonUK

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I didn't think the US would pull out of Iraq (until deemed fit) whoever wins the election?

That completely depends on how much that President lets the Press influence his decision to stay.  The doom and gloom of the American press isn't going to stop if GWB gets the boot regardless of the realities of the situation.  Iraq is this generation of the press' Vietnam and they're going to ride it for all it's worth.  If the President, whoever that may be, wants to stay in Iraq he's going to have to weather the media storm.

I'm sure Iraq will tend to plague the coalition for many years to come, regardless of who's got the top job either side of the pond.