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ric
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« on: October 13, 2004, 07:41:09 PM » |
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I'm almost getting teary-eyed |
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ric
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« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2004, 07:41:09 PM » |
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A new era for the Libyan-Western relationship
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fall-apart
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« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2004, 07:54:32 PM » |
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It's amazing what a little applied leverage can accomplish. quote:
Give me a big enough lever and I can move the world.
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Babar
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« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2004, 11:21:31 AM » |
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Too bad that everyone forgets that Iran isn't an Arab state. Iranians (or Persians, as they were before the 1930s) are Aryan.
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ScutMonkey
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« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2004, 12:08:10 PM » |
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quote:
Originally posted by: Babar
Too bad that everyone forgets that Iran isn't an Arab state. Iranians (or Persians, as they were before the 1930s) are Aryan.
No, but they are Muslim. |
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Babar
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« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2004, 12:57:38 PM » |
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Not historically. The Persians were, for about two or three millenia, followers of Zoroastrianism. It wasn't until Arabs invaded Persia in 641 that they were indoctrinated and turned into an Islamic caliphate, not unlike contemporary Christian states who were conquered and their people indoctrinated with Christianity. I should note that even though the Arabs conquered Persia and spread Islam to them, modern day Iranians will react angrily if you call them Arabs--their hatred for Arabs in general is that great.
In fact the Persians wiped out the Babylonians, who had essentially razed Jerusalem to the ground and exiled the Jews. Encyclopedia Britannica acknowledges that “in 538 [B.C.] Cyrus granted to the Jews, whom Nebuchadressar had transported to Babylonia, the return to Palestine and the rebuilding of Jerusalem and its temple†(Vol. 6, 1958, p. 940).
Cyrus is mentioned some 23 times in the literature of the Old Testament. Isaiah refers to Cyrus as Jehovah’s “shepherd,†the Lord’s “anointed,†who was providentially appointed to facilitate the divine plan. God would lead this monarch to “subdue nations†and “open doors†(an allusion to the Jews’ release from Babylonian captivity). He would make “rough places smooth,†i.e., accommodate the Hebrews’ return to their Palestinean homeland. He would ultimately be responsible for the rebuilding of Jerusalem and the reconstruction of the temple.
But more to the point I was making. Iran is one of the original members of the United Nations. It is one of the more liberal Middle Eastern states. Arab states consist of Jordan, UAE, Bahrain, Tusinia, Algeria, Djibouti, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Syria and Somalia. You cannot denounce Iran simply because its citizens are mostly Shi'a Muslims. You cannot denounce an entire religion simply because of its fringe fanatics.
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fall-apart
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« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2004, 01:00:02 PM » |
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Why not? Atheists do it all the time...
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Babar
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« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2004, 01:08:09 PM » |
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Doesn't mean atheists are right, Fall-apart, as I'm sure you would agree.
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fall-apart
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« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2004, 01:12:34 PM » |
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I know... However, you'll find people who argue that the fanatic muslim interpretation of the Koran is becoming more widespread and the moderate muslims don't seem to be doing much to stop it. In that estimation, they are no longer fringe but becoming mainstream.
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ScutMonkey
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« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2004, 01:38:27 PM » |
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I was talking about Lybia, first of all. Second of all, most of that information you quoted happened before Mohammed was around and Islam started. Of course they were something else before Islam. People forget how young Islam is compared to even Christianity. Mohammed was born in 571 AD and didn't start preaching until he was 30 years old (611 AD). The religion is less than 1400 years old and you're talking about events which happened before Christ if I'm not mistaken.
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ScutMonkey
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« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2004, 01:39:38 PM » |
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quote:
Originally posted by: ric
I'm almost getting teary-eyed
Oh and as far as that goes. I'll believe it when I see it. I'm still a diehard skeptic. |
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Babar
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« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2004, 01:50:46 PM » |
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And Christianity is nowhere near as old as Judaism, Scut; it's all relative.
And about Libya, these are Gadhafi's words, as quoted in the Washington Times, a conservative newspaper:
He (Gadhafi) blasted underground groups and organizations "which are exploiting religion in their resistance of Iraq's occupation."
"Using such religious names as Mohammed's Army, The Mehdi Army, God's Army and others does not bestow religious legitimacy on those groups," Gadhafi was quoted as saying.
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ric
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« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2004, 03:46:28 PM » |
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quote:
Originally posted by: ScutMonkey
quote:
Originally posted by: ric
I'm almost getting teary-eyed
Oh and as far as that goes. I'll believe it when I see it. I'm still a diehard skeptic.
yeah, my allergies were acting up.... |
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ScutMonkey
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« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2004, 04:31:41 PM » |
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quote:
Originally posted by: Babar
And Christianity is nowhere near as old as Judaism, Scut; it's all relative.
And about Libya, these are Gadhafi's words, as quoted in the Washington Times, a conservative newspaper:
He (Gadhafi) blasted underground groups and organizations "which are exploiting religion in their resistance of Iraq's occupation."
"Using such religious names as Mohammed's Army, The Mehdi Army, God's Army and others does not bestow religious legitimacy on those groups," Gadhafi was quoted as saying.
And his point is.... Even GWB has stated point blank that muslims in general are not our enemy and only terrorists. He won't even say fundamentalist muslims, which is the reality. |
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Babar
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« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2004, 09:46:54 AM » |
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Gadhafi's not a fundamentalist Muslim. What's YOUR point?
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