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ric
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« Reply #75 on: November 13, 2004, 08:31:47 PM » |
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This is going beyond the usual “money and weapons†support
1- Iran's Revolutionary Guards are sending military experts
2- Iran is getting directly involved in the preparation and launching of the drones
This is much more serious than you thought
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ric
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« Reply #76 on: November 14, 2004, 01:22:16 AM » |
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Babar
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« Reply #79 on: November 17, 2004, 11:35:44 AM » |
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quote:
This is much more serious than you thought
So? I fully support Iran... You would too, if the US gave your enemy (Saddam) tons upon tons of chemical weapons, which were used to kill millions of your civilians. Is Iran just supposed to play nice now? Ignore the 1,000,000+ Iranian deaths caused by American made chemical weapons?  ? Ummm? |
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ric
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« Reply #80 on: November 17, 2004, 05:59:28 PM » |
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quote:
Originally posted by: Babar
quote:
This is much more serious than you thought
So? I fully support Iran...
You would too, if the US gave your enemy (Saddam) tons upon tons of chemical weapons, which were used to kill millions of your civilians.
Is Iran just supposed to play nice now? Ignore the 1,000,000+ Iranian deaths caused by American made chemical weapons?? Ummm?
Doesn't surprise me in the least...this 14 year old boy (just a year older than my son) died after having received 85 lashes I'm sorry, but people who support a brutal regime that stones, flogs, beheads, sends homicide bombers into crowds that are full of children don't occupy the high moral ground |
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Daemon
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« Reply #81 on: November 17, 2004, 07:40:22 PM » |
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quote:
Originally posted by: ric
Doesn't surprise me in the least...this 14 year old boy (just a year older than my son) died after having received 85 lashes
You mean like they do in Saudi Arabia by law.... isn´t the regime there supported by your own government? |
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Babar
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« Reply #82 on: November 17, 2004, 08:07:24 PM » |
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Oh, and they also cut off the hands of thieves... they cut off the hand opposite of the dominant hand.
But if all countries who don't match the standard of the USA should be attacked, like you claim, then we should attack not only Iran, but China.
Unless, that is, you're unwilling to apply your thinking to non-Muslim countries?
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Babar
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« Reply #83 on: November 18, 2004, 11:51:02 AM » |
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Back to Israel... According to a Israeli human rights watchdog group, B'Tselem: - On average, 12 innocent people lost their home for every person suspected of participation in attacks against Israelis. - Almost half of the homes demolished (295 - 47%) were never home to anyone suspected of involvement in attacks against Israelis. As a result of these demolitions, 1,286 persons lost their homes even though according to Israel's own position, they should not have been punished. - Contrary to its argument before the High Court of Justice that prior warning is given except in extraordinary cases, B'Tselem's figures indicate that in less than 3% of the cases were occupants given prior notification of the IDF's intention to demolish their home. The declared objective of Israel's policy is to deter Palestinians from carrying out attacks against Israelis, by harming the families of those involved in such attacks. The deterrent effect of house demolitions has never been proven, but in any case this is not relevant to determining the legality of the policy. Palestinian attacks against Israeli civilians are a war crime that cannot be justified under any circumstances. Israel must protect its citizens, but it must do so in accordance with its obligations under international law. Punitive house demolitions are illegal, and B'Tselem demands that the government of Israel cease such demolitions, and compensate families whose homes were demolished. |
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mcBuddha
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« Reply #84 on: November 18, 2004, 09:03:25 PM » |
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Fine, back to Israel. These are very discouraging statistics, and indicate that the Israeli government has done things that are wrong, but speaking of double standards, can you find a Palestinian or Arab organization that monitors human rights abuses from within the country of the abuse with impunity?
I haven't looked myself, so I don't know the answer, but I'm guessing that the answer is no. Where is the voice in the Palestinian or Arab populace that says that 99.9% of the victims of terrorist attacks are non-combatants, and not legitimate targets. Oh, I forgot all Israelis by virtue of their living is Israel (or anywhere else - say like Egypt) are legitimate targets. Your originating point was that there was an inherent double standard being applied to the unmanned vehicles. Where is the Arab voice concerning the attrocities in the Sudan?...
Where in fact are your threads showing outrage for the recent attacks on vacationing Israelis in Egypt? Or do you reserve that sense of outrage for Israel?
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Reflex
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« Reply #85 on: November 18, 2004, 09:35:33 PM » |
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Because we already are all agreed that those atrocities need to be stopped. I doubt there is any dissent on those issues. THe point being made here is that the Arab/Israeli conflict has no innocent sides. On that there seems to be much dissent from some who seek to justify Israel while demonizing the Arabs.
My only real point here is that BOTH are in the wrong. And neither speaks for the majority of their population in their actions.
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Babar
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« Reply #86 on: November 19, 2004, 11:50:50 AM » |
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quote:
Because we already are all agreed that those atrocities need to be stopped. I doubt there is any dissent on those issues. THe point being made here is that the Arab/Israeli conflict has no innocent sides. On that there seems to be much dissent from some who seek to justify Israel while demonizing the Arabs.
Very well put! |
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Babar
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« Reply #87 on: November 19, 2004, 11:53:46 AM » |
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quote:
Where is the Arab voice concerning the attrocities in the Sudan?...
Well, apparently, BBC reports they've negotiated a cease fire.... quote:
Where in fact are your threads showing outrage for the recent attacks on vacationing Israelis in Egypt? Or do you reserve that sense of outrage for Israel?
Don't get me started, I very strongly believe that the approach of Mahatma Gandhi and Martin Luther King is much more effective than killing and death, but this does not mean that I automatically excuse Israel for not taking the higher moral ground. |
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iamjack
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« Reply #88 on: November 19, 2004, 12:53:41 PM » |
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quote:
Originally posted by: ric
I'm sorry, but people who support a brutal regime that stones, flogs, beheads, sends homicide bombers into crowds that are full of children don't occupy the high moral ground
Like say...the US governments support for the Baathists in the 1960s? |
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mcBuddha
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« Reply #89 on: November 19, 2004, 04:32:44 PM » |
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UN backs south Sudan peace pledge The SPLA rebels have agreed to give up their armed campaign The United Nations has promised aid to Sudan's government and southern rebels if they fulfil a promise to finalise a peace deal by the end of the year. Ceasefire?quote:
Where in fact are your threads showing outrage for the recent attacks on vacationing Israelis in Egypt? Or do you reserve that sense of outrage for Israel?
Don't get me started, I very strongly believe that the approach of Mahatma Gandhi and Martin Luther King is much more effective than killing and death, but this does not mean that I automatically excuse Israel for not taking the higher moral ground.
Yet an Israeli criticism of a terrorist organization's flying of a UAV warrants your outrage?And those approaches are based on the basic ethical decentness of your opposition. Would Gandhi, or King's approach worked against the Nazis? So why is it that you waste bandwidth on such a minor item when you have things like this: Something to really get angry aboutLets talk about hypocricy shall we? hmmm? I've not said once that Israel is blameless in this mess. In fact I believe Sharon instigated the whole intifada intentionally, for his own political reasons, by taking his walk on the Temple Mount - though why Jews should be restricted from there still escapes me. Yet, if the Israeli/Palestinians had not reached an impasse, and the Palestinians had not shown such an active disregard for controlling terrorists within their territories, the political ground would not have been prepared for Sharon coming to power. I really don't get what youre point is. If it is that neither side is blameless then you could have shortcutted this whole conversation long ago. But if its that somehow your first post is an example of a true double standard I still disagree. But if you want to really talk about double standards lets talk about Arab Hypocricy. But talk about a waste of bandwidth... Anyway I'm finished with this topic. |
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Reflex
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« Reply #90 on: November 19, 2004, 05:09:21 PM » |
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quote:
I've not said once that Israel is blameless in this mess. In fact I believe Sharon instigated the whole intifada intentionally, for his own political reasons, by taking his walk on the Temple Mount - though why Jews should be restricted from there still escapes me. Yet, if the Israeli/Palestinians had not reached an impasse, and the Palestinians had not shown such an active disregard for controlling terrorists within their territories, the political ground would not have been prepared for Sharon coming to power.
Thats all I wanted to hear. I am sick of the Israeli apologists and Arab demonizers. Both sides have been horrendous to each other, and neither is really deserving of our sympathy. THe people who deserve it are the Jews and Arabs who are caught in the middle of two feuding minorities. They are the ones getting killed randomly, and they are the ones who least deserve it. The media in this country does not cover the issue adequatly, and that is why people like me tend to bring up the Israeli atrocities more than the Arab ones. Everyone here already hears about the Arab terrorists. What they do not hear about is the retaliations by Israel. So someone has to speak up. The US should not be supporting either side in this. |
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Babar
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« Reply #91 on: November 19, 2004, 05:15:37 PM » |
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well said.
i truly hope that some good will come out of arafat's death, and i sincerely want to see condoleezza rice create something from this vaccum. if she can, i will have much more respect for her.
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ScutMonkey
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« Reply #92 on: November 21, 2004, 02:30:23 AM » |
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quote:
Originally posted by: Babar
well said.
i truly hope that some good will come out of arafat's death, and i sincerely want to see condoleezza rice create something from this vaccum. if she can, i will have much more respect for her.
Personally, I don't think it's her responsibility to create anything out of this. It's the Palestinians and Israelis who bear that burden. If she can facillitate this, fine, but any failures are their to share, not ours. It shouldn't take the US or anyone in Europe for that matter to get that situation straightened out. |
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