Would you buy the MacMini?

[SandboxTiger]

Anyone have any specs on the Mac mini 2.0? any idea on prices either?

[TheEagleCD]

quote:
Originally posted by: SandboxTiger
Anyone have any specs on the Mac mini 2.0? any idea on prices either?

I think you're misunderstanding something here... There's no info, no specs, no price, no nothing on the Mac mini 2 (or whatever you wanna call it). It just seems like a logical thing to do and that's why people are suggesting that it might be happening. That's all there is...

TheEagleCD

[stebesplace]

I want to add another point here. Once a 2nd edition/version/whatever comes out, perhaps in 6 to 9 months, its going to be cheap enough to say...I think i'll upgrade. Know what I mean? Its not like a 2 grand machine here. So at another 599, or whatever is required, its easy to justify and upgrade.

-- Stebes

[KeyserSoze]

quote:
It is a 333MHz bus numbnuts

When did Freescale start making a PPC with a 333MHz or 167MHz DDDR front side bus?  Pretty sure the mini's got a Freescale 7447, with a 167MHz single data rate front side bus.  Yes the memory is DDR, so you've got twice as much bandwidth between the memory and northbridge as between the CPU and northbridge.  In theory anything using DMA will take advantage of that, but the fact remains that the CPU isn't gonna be able to take advantage of the whole memory speed by itself.

I don't believe flir67's claim that the FSB is the reason that it's slow though.  flir67, how much RAM did you have?  If you are using swap a lot, it'll be dog slow.  Also, apps might be slow to start up, because of the slow hard drive.  Once they are in memory though they should respond reasonably well.  I know my laptop (Pentium-M 1.4GHz, 400MHz FSB) performs like crap when it's just come out of hibernation, because it's trying to get stuff back into memory off of the crappy laptop hard drive.  Once an app is loaded though, it's relatively quick, and I imagine the mini would be the same.

[TheEagleCD]

After reading KeyserSoze's comments I decided to check this issue myself and we might have to re-consider these statements about flir67 because according to the Mac mini's specs site we are indeed talking about a 167MHz FSB...

quote:
Technical Specifications
Processor and memory

   * 1.25GHz or 1.42GHz PowerPC G4 processor with Velocity Engine
   * 512K on-chip level 2 cache at full processor speed
   * 167MHz system bus

Compare that to the iMac G5 specs:

quote:
Technical Specifications
Processor and memory

   * 1.6GHz or 1.8GHz PowerPC G5 processor with Velocity Engine
   * 512K on-chip level 2 cache at full processor speed
   * 533MHz or 600MHz frontside bus

The other G4 based products (except for the iBooks which use a 133MHz FSB) all have a 167MHz FSB.

Regards,
TheEagleCD

[thelittlefish]

I'd buy one only for my parents b/c mac OSX has a shorter learning curve than windows and the GUI seems simpler (oh and they don't lock up as frequently).

[ZenKat]

Shuttle beats the mini hands down on price/performance for anything past the basic box, plus freeBSD is ... free!

I priced out a mini with the faster processor, 512mb ram, the "super drive" DVD writer, 80gb HD, BT, WiFi, keyboard, mouse and no monitor and it came to $972. The SN45G Shuttle shown in my signature is/was about that price almost a year ago (to be honest, WiFi not included).

[xbob1]

Not relevant unless your Shuttle can run OS X and assorted other Apple software.

[DrThundr]

...and your Shuttle can miraculously colapse to less than 1/4 its regular size.

[Constantine]

quote:
Originally posted by: 3balls
my hat's off to apple....pure design and function...very appealing.  but, having owned several mac's in the past, they simply don't match my current systems.  the g4 is not a responsive, capable system.  this will be good for people wanting to try their os, etc., but i don't see a landfall for apple putting ii on the market.  imo...i see a big surge and a fast death.  anyone want to buy my mac se, signature edition ? .....probably not.....

  Yup, this Mini is "pure design and function...", unfortunatly no perfornace and Maxi price  for what you get
--mini RAM, bad HD, slow CPU.   Three year old SS51G light years ahead of this apple.  I went for new HP laptop with 17 inch screen + 3.2 p4, again, light years ahead.

[Constantine]

quote:
Originally posted by: BananaNutBread
I've been wanting to try the Mac OSX for some time now. It doesn't have to be screamingly fast or play games. I already have a nice monitor, keyboard, and mouse and a KVM , so a headless box is totally perfect. I have to assume I am the target market for this thing because if it works out well, I might buy a higher end powerbook or a Powermac later.

So yea, I'l prolly order one in Feb or so

BnB

 You can "try"  Mac OSX for free in every store that sells  Mac's
 

[xbob1]

Thanks for bringing absolutely ZERO knowledge to the discussion Constantine, it's always nice when someone blatantly displays their ignorance in their first few post, saves me the trouble of taking anything else you post seriously.

[Sam Mayes]

I guess you guys dont get. "The mini is pure design and function" hmm. Thats exactly what i dont want  a well designed very functional system, let me run back to windows to use an ill designed, unsecure, os/system where i spend more time fixing stuff than actually working.

I also think you miss the point at who this is targeted to. its the non techie, 90% of the pc population that just want something that works and takes very little effort to maintain. I spent years and an overclocking,tweaking, fixing wintel users. No I am a productive spend more time away from the computer guy who just doesnt get why people put up with the status quo.  

This machine will be perfect for 90% of the computing public, and comes with probably 80% of the software needed for daily life. Which market would you target. the techies who makeup 10-15% or the general public who make up 85-90? And I mean seriously unless you are doing massive encoding/3drendering/editing/ etc why do you need to a 3ghz processor? Again anything over 1ghz wewill fit the majority of the public.

just my thoughts

[Constantine]

quote:
Originally posted by: DrThundr
...and your Shuttle can miraculously colapse to less than 1/4 its regular size.

 I'm sure  that Shuttle could easily  produce  "mini" size  Shuttle , unfortunatly  With Mini size comes  Mini performance.   You get "1/4 its regular size" with 1/100 of its abilities/performance--for those  that  think its OK , Mini is waiting for you. I'm sure you also forgot about additional  brick  that comes with Mini--external PSU.
 Shuttles get positive and negative comments  daly , why is it that  Mini's very weak points can not be pointed out in the same manner?  

Here is  a post from one owner--post yours .

flir67
Junior Member

Posts: 5
Joined: 08/15/2004

   
the mini sucks.. only till you get one your realize you have been ripped off. no where is the bus speed mentioned ... no whwere.... wonder why.. its only 167mhz bus speed. compared to the 400mhz and 533+ computers of today. 3 second delay with everything.



no I mean 167 not 167X2 = 333

be warned...

I bought one and havel already sold it because its so slow.

stick with shuttles or sol

[Constantine]

quote:
Originally posted by: Sam Mayes
I guess you guys dont get. "The mini is pure design and function" hmm. Thats exactly what i dont want  a well designed very functional system, let me run back to windows to use an ill designed, unsecure, os/system where i spend more time fixing stuff than actually working.

I also think you miss the point at who this is targeted to. its the non techie, 90% of the pc population that just want something that works and takes very little effort to maintain. I spent years and an overclocking,tweaking, fixing wintel users. No I am a productive spend more time away from the computer guy who just doesnt get why people put up with the status quo.  

This machine will be perfect for 90% of the computing public, and comes with probably 80% of the software needed for daily life. Which market would you target. the techies who makeup 10-15% or the general public who make up 85-90? And I mean seriously unless you are doing massive encoding/3drendering/editing/ etc why do you need to a 3ghz processor? Again anything over 1ghz wewill fit the majority of the public.

just my thoughts

Very puzzzling "thoughts" my friend, why would you "run back" to windows when  you list  like 100 Window Shuttles in you r signature? Why suffer for years with windows--Apple products were  available for ages or do you think that Apple just poped up with Mini? I'm sure that YOU "overclocking,tweaking, fixing wintel users" produced as many problems as  solved them in the first place.  Everyon is overclocker   and tweaker nowadays, no wonder  number of "problems" posted in Shuttle forum or any other forum  is constant.
Who needs more than 1ghz--CPU??  You can not be serious.  
Who wants  Mercedes looks with YUGO engine?  
If all you do is post  in this forum  than sure you can get by  with 300mhz CPU.  90% of us  do more in 2005 than that, I'm sure this comes as a surprize to you though.

Just my thoughts.

[Sam Mayes]

I dont think you realize who I am. I am the admin and coder for all the sudhian websites. I have been in the pc industry since the altair home built machines. just for a little background.  You are correct in that most people on this forum are tweakers etc. And the mini is not for them, Its not targeted to those types of people. its targeted at the other 90% of the computing public that dont tweak their systems. Do not even think for a minute that "tweakers" make up more than 10-15% of the general computing public.  And I do need to update my sig as I have sold allmost all my windows systems and replaced them with macs. What gets me excited about the mini is that its a VERY strong entry system for potential mac users and delivers most of the apps needed for use of your system from day one without an added expense.

Ive now bought them for my mom, dad, brother and two aunts and they love them and wont use a windows machine again. At least 20-30 of my friends have also purchased them. These are HIGHLY technical windows users, developers, engineers averageing over 35 years old. a couple have now bought g5s and powerbooks they are so impressed with their "gateway drug" which is called a mini.

and as far as length of time, I had a powerbook that I use daily for 2 years , Ive finally gotten fed up enough (my family aswell) to forgo using a windows system. I am not saying it is for everyone it truly isnt, but it will be for alot of people, as they sold 200k of them in 7 days. and it will sell a bajillion (techie term)..

[xbob1]

Awesome, I love it when someone proves my point, good job Constantine!

[TheEagleCD]

*grabs popcorn and sits down on sofa to watch*

[Constantine]

quote:
Originally posted by: Sam Mayes
I dont think you realize who I am. I am the admin and coder for all the sudhian websites. I have been in the pc industry since the altair home built machines. just for a little background.  You are correct in that most people on this forum are tweakers etc. And the mini is not for them, Its not targeted to those types of people. its targeted at the other 90% of the computing public that dont tweak their systems. Do not even think for a minute that "tweakers" make up more than 10-15% of the general computing public.  And I do need to update my sig as I have sold allmost all my windows systems and replaced them with macs. What gets me excited about the mini is that its a VERY strong entry system for potential mac users and delivers most of the apps needed for use of your system from day one without an added expense.

Ive now bought them for my mom, dad, brother and two aunts and they love them and wont use a windows machine again. At least 20-30 of my friends have also purchased them. These are HIGHLY technical windows users, developers, engineers averageing over 35 years old. a couple have now bought g5s and powerbooks they are so impressed with their "gateway drug" which is called a mini.

and as far as length of time, I had a powerbook that I use daily for 2 years , Ive finally gotten fed up enough (my family aswell) to forgo using a windows system. I am not saying it is for everyone it truly isnt, but it will be for alot of people, as they sold 200k of them in 7 days. and it will sell a bajillion (techie term)..

  Good than  you know that  there are   bajillion  PC's out there for probably every Mac---- you know   that there are   bajillion  components from  bajillion  companies  and hterefore  bajillion  conbination s/variables in the PC  versus Mac?  
How many people just buy the cheapest componentss for their PC's that may leat to problems?   If you are stating that  Windows is hte problem than we will have to simply disagree and move on.   There are bajillion  more problems stated in many forums hardware related than  Windows OS, just visit Shuttle forum since you are here.  I'm sure prebuilt dells, gateways and bajillion  others do not have all the problems that one can find in DIY  group.

    My family/friends are all on PC's  and dont  have unpspecified problems you had to deal with. Weak argument, there .
I will agree that  in 2005 $500 Mini with poor performance is NOT for everybody . Otherwise evryone could just stay  with  their 1000mhz P3 , and many do,  if  reasons for Performance needed for 90% of buyers out htere is what Mini has to offer.

 Could  bajillion  programs from bajillion  companies  produce more instability  in Windows if installed     than 30 or so  programs for MAc OS?


   
I'd like to see Mac sell 200 000 Minis in june, once the word gets around  about it.  
Microsoft office  for Mac will give a good boost to Mac sales
( and shall I say  OS problems  because thi s  Microsoft product may be in it?)
oherwise all the Mini Macs  would be found in your moms/dads possession simply because they dont need much to begin with.  Surly Ipods are a good seller because it is compatiblw with windows as well.  

  I'd like to take "big" jet plane (like Shuttle SFF) over   turboprop( Mini) anywhere, if possible.
   If many state that  Mini is cute and worth trying and may be good for 90% out there, fine , I'll get one  but DEFINITLY not because  Window PC drives me crazy, it just doesnt, sorry.


 

[Constantine]

quote:
Originally posted by: xbob1
Awesome, I love it when someone proves my point, good job Constantine!

You are welcome, buddy-------live long and prosper!

[xbob1]

quote:
Originally posted by: Constantine

quote:
Originally posted by: Sam Mayes
I dont think you realize who I am. I am the admin and coder for all the sudhian websites. I have been in the pc industry since the altair home built machines. just for a little background.  You are correct in that most people on this forum are tweakers etc. And the mini is not for them, Its not targeted to those types of people. its targeted at the other 90% of the computing public that dont tweak their systems. Do not even think for a minute that "tweakers" make up more than 10-15% of the general computing public.  And I do need to update my sig as I have sold allmost all my windows systems and replaced them with macs. What gets me excited about the mini is that its a VERY strong entry system for potential mac users and delivers most of the apps needed for use of your system from day one without an added expense.

Ive now bought them for my mom, dad, brother and two aunts and they love them and wont use a windows machine again. At least 20-30 of my friends have also purchased them. These are HIGHLY technical windows users, developers, engineers averageing over 35 years old. a couple have now bought g5s and powerbooks they are so impressed with their "gateway drug" which is called a mini.

and as far as length of time, I had a powerbook that I use daily for 2 years , Ive finally gotten fed up enough (my family aswell) to forgo using a windows system. I am not saying it is for everyone it truly isnt, but it will be for alot of people, as they sold 200k of them in 7 days. and it will sell a bajillion (techie term)..

  Good than  you know that  there are   bajillion  PC's out there for probably every Mac---- you know   that there are   bajillion  components from  bajillion  companies  and hterefore  bajillion  conbination s/variables in the PC  versus Mac?  
How many people just buy the cheapest componentss for their PC's that may leat to problems?   If you are stating that  Windows is hte problem than we will have to simply disagree and move on.   There are bajillion  more problems stated in many forums hardware related than  Windows OS, just visit Shuttle forum since you are here.  I'm sure prebuilt dells, gateways and bajillion  others do not have all the problems that one can find in DIY  group.

    My family/friends are all on PC's  and dont  have unpspecified problems you had to deal with. Weak argument, there .
I will agree that  in 2005 $500 Mini with poor performance is NOT for everybody . Otherwise evryone could just stay  with  their 1000mhz P3 , and many do,  if  reasons for Performance needed for 90% of buyers out htere is what Mini has to offer.

 Could  bajillion  programs from bajillion  companies  produce more instability  in Windows if installed     than 30 or so  programs for MAc OS?


   
I'd like to see Mac sell 200 000 Minis in june, once the word gets around  about it.  
Microsoft office  for Mac will give a good boost to Mac sales
( and shall I say  OS problems  because thi s  Microsoft product may be in it?)
oherwise all the Mini Macs  would be found in your moms/dads possession simply because they dont need much to begin with.  Surly Ipods are a good seller because it is compatiblw with windows as well.  

  I'd like to take "big" jet plane (like Shuttle SFF) over   turboprop( Mini) anywhere, if possible.
   If many state that  Mini is cute and worth trying and may be good for 90% out there, fine , I'll get one  but DEFINITLY not because  Window PC drives me crazy, it just doesnt, sorry.


 

You are a riot, I have not read anything this funny in a long time. If ignorance is bliss you surely live in a Zen-like state.

[Sam Mayes]

Constatine,

 I blame os stability problems not entirely with microsoft. I dont envy having to support the types of hardware variations they do. But I and many others dont need those variations.  I mean cmon when we are talking components nowadays who really changes anything except their vid card.

I do blame os security issues on MS, and their blatent disregard for common "best practice" security programming.  But thats the problem you get when all your apps are so incestuously integrated with your operating system. I dont envy their QA testers lives at all.

And I disagree with your statement that mini has poor performance. What is your benchmark. Against a 3ghz p4? Well DUH , try comparing it to a 1.5-2g celeron, run photoshop etc  and see then. Compare like products to like products. It outperforms my powerbook laptop that runs everything I throw at it on a daily basis. Do I edit video or 3d renedering on it no, but I have a dual g5 for that as thats what its FOR its a workstation. The mini is more of an appliance. And its target market is not performance freaks. But it would be a great second system, a kid syste, relatives etc who are not tech savvy. Thats who they are selling to.

Again I state that this is not a machine for the high perf enthusiast crowd as a main rig. It is however a machine that you will find yourself using alot more than you expect. And once you do for more that a few days, its a gateway to a different way to do you stuff on a pc. It currently is the way I prefer to do stuff. Obviously not yours . Oh wait a minute

Have you ever used a mac for more than 15 minutes in a store? Have you had a mini and actually used it? have you attempted an unbiased opinion in evaluating the system?

I have and Im not in the mac camp. Not for everyone, but it is for me....

[stebesplace]

I tell ya what. In regards to your comments sam, and to favor the mini for a sec, with 512 and soon to be a gig with my 23" display, this is pretty damn peppy. Ohh and photoshop runs as quick if not quicker with a re-partitioned swap on this 4200 RPM drive than in my shuttle with a 40 gig 7200 seagate. It is faster, and more responsive, and the OSX is very nice.The lacking component is the vid card, so woop dee doo, too bad. I have to say with the exception of video, this thing is as fast as my 3 GHz shuttle with 1 gig of ram (p4) PC3200 9700pro. Thats all I have to say right now.

[Constantine]

quote:
Originally posted by: xbob1


 

You are a riot, I have not read anything this funny in a long time. If ignorance is bliss you surely live in a Zen-like state.

    Advice--stay  close to  the subject,  ignorance, bliss, zen---who cares?  I have no interest  in your view of the "world or  its inhabitants"  in Apple forum.  



 

[Constantine]

quote:
Originally posted by: Sam Mayes
Constatine,



Again I state that this is not a machine for the high perf enthusiast crowd as a main rig. It is however a machine that you will find yourself using alot more than you expect. And once you do for more that a few days, its a gateway to a different way to do you stuff on a pc. It currently is the way I prefer to do stuff. Obviously not yours . Oh wait a minute

Have you ever used a mac for more than 15 minutes in a store? Have you had a mini and actually used it? have you attempted an unbiased opinion in evaluating the system?

I have and Im not in the mac camp. Not for everyone, but it is for me....

    THanks for your on topic responces --I will try one this coming weekend in Microcenter, if they have one,  unfortunatly probably  for  no longer than 20-30 minutes.