Sorry Reflex. Not only have you only called yourself a Conservative in one post and only a Libertarian in another never linking the two, you dodged the question 5 times when I asked you. Pretending you didn't is nothing more than another false statement. If it was so easy for you to admit you shouldn't have had a problem declaring it the first time.
Why would I have to link them? Most people here are not so stupid as to not realize that Libertarians are considered to be more conservative than Republicans, just as most people here know that Greens are more liberal than Democrats. I'm sorry that you do not know our political system very well, but that is ultimatly your problem, not mine.
How many times do I have to say this before you get it? Conservatives have thoughts and values that libertarians do NOT have. You are so wrapped up in whether or not a political party exists for the group and base that on whether or not that can have their own viewpoints, you continue to overlook that each group has its own values and judgments. Stop pretending that this has some political party meaning and simply look at the different groups and what they believe. It looks far more like another dodge than anything else. I already said that conservatives and libertarians share some common traits but they do NOT share all traits. I've said this twice before. Try reading it this time.
No, they do not. Libertarians are more conservative than Republicans. Conservative as a term is a measure of a set of views, the Libertarian have more conservative points of view than the Republicans do, just as the Greens have more liberal points of view than the Democrats do.
That is a LIE. You never said it was circumstantial evidence. You listed it as a point to prove Bush's fascism.
Just another lie you have been caught making...again.
But please, dare me to produce the quotes where you made these absolute statements and get your tennis shoes laced up.
I feel we have been lied to. You don't have to agree of course, but I and many others feel we are being lied to, and are willing to call Bush out on it.
You NEVER said you had doubts. You made absolute statements that he was a liar. And anyone looking at the wiretap story knows there are defenses on both sides. You NEVER said anything like it was possible, you made absolute statements.
Go ahead and deny it. Please. I have your direct quotes ready.
This is what you always try to do when you are loosing. You either run, use a label, or in this case as with many others, try and reinvent what you originally said into something that fits your case better.
Well too bad. Your absolute quotes speak for themselves.
If you feel he is not a liar, show me the WMD's in Iraq. I was promised before this war, in fact the entire world was promised that we would find large stores of WMD's. I don't see them. There is one explicit promise I have noticed that was broken.
It absolutely shows you have serious liberal leanings since you not only spout their positions on these topics, you have the exact same bias towards accusations you assume are correct against Bush and Republican leaders even though the evidence is NOT there.
I have given plenty of reasoning that has nothing to do with the 'liberals' out there. I doubt many Liberals are complaining about some of the things I am complaining about, like his massive increase in centralized education or boondoggle programs like medication coverage. Show me liberals who are complaining about those liberal social programs.
Dodge dodge dodge. Try addressing the specific points you made earlier.
But let's be very clear on many of the points you try to mask what you said before since you are afraid to answer them directly.
I have never shown fear of anything here. I have, however, refused to play this game your way, and I will continue to do so. You do not control the conversation or the form it takes, you participate in it.
Gay Marriage Ban
Tax Cuts
Terry (right to life)
Iraq War
Christmas controversy
The War on Terrorism
Border Enforcement
Gay Marriage Ban - This is an unlawful attack on States Rights, definatly liberal in nature. Conservatives believe states have the rights to set their own marriage laws. Within each state conservatives and liberals can battle to decide what is right for their communities.
Tax Cuts - I have no problem with the tax cuts. However they should have been combined with spending cuts. My only complaint here is that the administration is piling up massive debt without regard for the lowered income.
Terry Schiavo -
What about Tirhas Habtegiris? This poor woman was put to death despite being conscious by a law Bush signed in during his time as Governor. Hypocracy at work here. As for Terry herself, this was a Liberal invasion of a private marriage and the Florida State court system. Conservatives know better than to interfere in states rights or private marriage decisions.
Iraq War - I personally have no problem with knocking over tinpot dictators and installing democracies, I feel the citizens of this world have a duty to free their fellow humans. My only issue with the war is how it was handled.
Christmas Controversy - This comes up every year and is simply an emotional appeal to the Christian base. More a religious issue than anything else. I personally don't care.
War on Terrorism - We have had this 'war' for decades at least for anyone not in a coma who can get news from a source other than Fox or CNN. Most of it however has been domestic, from abortion clinic assassins to the Unabomber and Timothy McVeigh. While our current administration is busy overseas, groups in the US may not be getting the scrutiny they used to. I'd be more worried about what the Aryan Nations, Earth First or the Church of God Universal and Triumphant(military grade weaponry and compound with a few thousand people in Montana that wants to overthrow the government) are up to right now than Baathists in Iraq, but hey thats me.
Border Enforcement - Not a Conservative principle. This nation was founded by immigrants and fueled through its greatest economic growth when immigrants were allowed to enter freely. Conservatives generally do not see it as a high priority, although for some odd reason Republicans do.
These are conservative principles that have been fought by conservatives including Bush and leading Republicans. Funny how you only stick to what Libertarians share in common with Conservatives and never go beyond that.
You are confusing a party platform with a political point of view(conservatism).
That's right. Conservatives do have core values which you still run away from answering
.
Just to name a few....
They are against overall:
Gay Marriage.
Abortion
Drug Legalization
The elimination of religion from schools
They are for:
Border Patrol
A Traditional America
Tax Cuts
More Conservative Judges
Now once again, these are values NOT in Libertarian thinking. If you truly believe you are a Conservative outside the common traits shared by Libertarians, then lets see your positions on these topics.
These are the values of the Republican Party Platform. They are not necessarily conservatism. Just because the Republicans tell you an ideal is a conservative one does not make it true. If the Republicans decided tommorrow that Socialism was their new party platform, would that automatically make Socialism a new conservative ideal?
Gay Marriage. Do you think the founding fathers given the time they lived in, would be for it?
Irrelevant to the founding fathers. The federal government purposefully did not include legislation regarding marriage because it was considered a state issue. The US at that time(and today) had many different cultural norms that had to be respected, from the Amish to the French(after the Lousiana Purchase made by Jefferson), and any federal regulations on this would hinder states rights on those issues(and the values of individual communities). I agree with their point of view.
How about Taxes? Would they be for them?
They were for taxes to fund explicit government needs, not for the general populace. I agree with this. More importantly, they did not start programs that required continuing taxation as it was felt to be an onerous burden to the citizens.
How about prayer in school? Think they would be against that?
More importantly, did they believe in a public schooling system in which this could be a problem? The answer is no, they believed in private schools. Libertarians believe in school vouchers and the privatization of schools, that way if you want your child to pray in school you send them to a religious school, if not, you send them to a non-religious one.
This is your cowardly attempt not to answer the question directly hiding behind men who lived over 200 years ago instead of being man enough to give your opinion on modern issues. How pathetic. Is the starch in your shirt the only thing keeping you upright? Grow a backbone for once and quit hiding behind men who have been dead for over 200 years and answer current even questions.
It is hardly cowardly to demonstrate respect for the founding fathers of a great nation. I respect their views and what they stood for. Are you telling me that you have no respect for this nations founders or their views? Should we toss the Constitution out and start over with a new one designed for the 'issues of the moment' that you are so concerned about?
Looks like a liberal, smells, like a liberal, takes the same positions and assumptions as a liberal.... it is probably a liberal.
And if it is irrelevant that Bush is lying, why did you accuse him of it?
I smell another dodge coming.
Where are the WMD's? I smell another dodge coming...
LOL So you admit you assume a conservative president is lying without evidence. That is the liberal bias shining through once again.
Actually, what I admit is that Bush is not a Conservative. And since he appears to me to be a Liberal, I simply cannot trust him or his motives. Perhaps were he to actually be a Conservative, I would have more faith in him.
LOL It goes a long way to you actually being honest about the positions you take.
The fact that you dodged the very questions of issues beyond what conservatives and libertarians share makes my point for me.
You simply don't have the backbone to put your beliefs out there because you know it wont hold up to the label you have given yourself.
99% of the people here have no problem admitting and being honest about their political leanings and points of view on specific subjects.
Only you run from specific questions designed to shed some light on your political biasness.
Lets see if you run away again from these specific points.
Been on record here much longer than you. Your the only person who does not seem to understand my political leanings.
