Vista

[OldDummy]

Installed Vista on my new box and so far it seems..........ok. This is my first hands on with the OS so it will take awhile to get a feel for it. If anybody has input from their quality time with it, let me know.

OD

[mjensen2k]

I've been working with it for a couple weeks now.  In general I'm pretty happy with it.  I have two outstanding issues right now though.

The onboard realtek ac97 audio isn't quite right.  Perhaps someone here will have an idea.  Sound from mp3/wma/dvd/tv/etc. are all just fine.  But the windows sounds aren't quite right.  They cause pops in my speakers, etc.  I'm using digital to my Boston BA735 speakers.  I wonder if it has something to do with the 48k sample rate.  Could it be that my speakers only want 44.1?  Just a thought.  I don't know the sound subsystem at all so don't know the diff between an mp3 playing and the windows sounds.

The other issue is more severe in that the kernel is spinning after about an hour.  I leave it alone and I come back to 100% cpu being taken up by the kernel.  I've been trying to debug with no luck so far.  ntkrnlpa.exe is the process I believe per process monitor.  It shows it's working on a queue item 0x1db, but I haven't found out what exactly it's trying to do.

I'm trying to update the bios on my SN21G5 and have never done that before so I'm trying to figure that out as well.  Just in case I'm running an old version.

So, that's it so far.  I enjoy it.  The onboard 6100 was inadequate so I got a passively cooled 7600gs and it seems to be doing fine, but just installed it last night.

Just in case anyone is interested:
Sn21G5
AMD64 SanDiego Core 3700+
1GB PC3200 DDR
7600GS
320GB pata HDD

[iwakefie]

There hasn't been a BIOS update since February, so don't bother (if you bought your SN21G5 since then). I don't think there will be any more for this Shuttle.

These are the two BIOS versions;
SN21S01Q
SN21S01V

http://ftp://ftp.shuttle.com/BIOS/sn21g5/

http://www.xpcbios.com/download.html

[OldDummy]

Hello miensen2k and welcome to the forums- Tried to install a game and the game said that I needed a: "1.8Ghz cpu to install the game should it be installed anyway?" So I tried cpuZ and it informed me that the cpu was a X6800 @2.93Ghz running at ~1.5Ghz. IOW Vista has control over the Bios functions. I really don't know what to make of it. It is a really weird juxtaposition so to speak; the OS being ruled by hardware is no more, the OS rules all. Unless, of course, my cpu is broken. I have two hdd in this box and after awhile I hear at least one slowing it's rpm's, that might be a feature also...hmmmm don't know if I like this stuff. Treating all computers like laptops..... Guess I'm not a "green" guy.

Still not that familiar with the OS, but getting better.

EDIT:just changed the power options to performance from balanced.

OD

[Jesterocity]

I was just going to say its the power saving options! I'm glad to be hearing good things about vista so far. I' sure I'll be getting it in the future, but I had heard the aeroglass is a total system hog. I'd rather have a lean mean OS that gives as much of the system to the apps as possible.

[Shagbag]

I don't run Vista, but could mjensen2k's mysterious kernel process have anything to do with 'instant search' indexing the hard drive for the very first time?  This happens with linux's Beagle search tool.  After some time (depending on the size of your hard drive) it finishes the job and is never a problem again.  One way to check would be to see if the HDD light is on while it's doing it.

@Jesterocity
Just how much of a resource hog is Aero?  Could you post some figures?  I'd be interested to know and compare it with Beryl (which maxes at <10% of my 1.66GHz Core 2 Duo and <5% of my 2GB of RAM).

[OldDummy]

Started up CS:Source and the stress test, starts out with the visuals looking very good but as soon as it starts working the distortion begins, the fps were ok ~199.  Then started HL2: Lost Coast, same thing must be the drivers are in need of “fine tuning”.  My wife had to send some faxes and the interface is like the Outlook email program. Seems slick and smooth but it will take some getting used to.  In fact that could be said about the whole OS.  
 
 I am running VISTA on a high-end box and it seems smooth but not FAST, I can believe that the requirements given are being fudged a bit. This OS LOVES hardware resources, the more the merrier.

Edit 12-18-2006, 10:13pm:Have received a few faxes and havn’t figured out how to rotate them. My sister-in-law always faxes upside down so I have to print everything out to read it. The old fax console allowed rotating the received faxes in the viewer. Annoying…… but minor.

OD

[Intuit]

I've been working with it for a couple weeks now.  In general I'm pretty happy with it.  I have two outstanding issues right now though.

The onboard realtek ac97 audio isn't quite right.  Perhaps someone here will have an idea.  Sound from mp3/wma/dvd/tv/etc. are all just fine.  But the windows sounds aren't quite right.  They cause pops in my speakers, etc.  I'm using digital to my Boston BA735 speakers.  I wonder if it has something to do with the 48k sample rate.  Could it be that my speakers only want 44.1?  Just a thought.  I don't know the sound subsystem at all so don't know the diff between an mp3 playing and the windows sounds.  ..........

In past cases I've seen this is usually just limited to the background channels.  If you change it from 5.1 to just 2-channel and more importantly turn-off any DSP enhancements, the problem should disappear.  This is pure speculation here but it seems that when the DSP gets audio data that is too loud or is not totally compatible with it's programming (or corrupt), popping and static results.  FOr various possible reasons (driver-CPU/PCI bus) sometimes the audio card gets corrupted data when the CPU is really busy.  A lot of the cheaper hardware write drivers that use the CPU for doing calculations that would be best done by peripheral hardware.  Besides steep performance hits, sometimes that leaves the potential for other side-effects also.

[mjensen2k]

In past cases I've seen this is usually just limited to the background channels.  If you change it from 5.1 to just 2-channel and more importantly turn-off any DSP enhancements, the problem should disappear.  This is pure speculation here but it seems that when the DSP gets audio data that is too loud or is not totally compatible with it's programming (or corrupt), popping and static results.  FOr various possible reasons (driver-CPU/PCI bus) sometimes the audio card gets corrupted data when the CPU is really busy.  A lot of the cheaper hardware write drivers that use the CPU for doing calculations that would be best done by peripheral hardware.  Besides steep performance hits, sometimes that leaves the potential for other side-effects also.

(I must have lost a reply from last night.... I'll try recap it)

First, I was going to mention the power savings as well.  Even within Performance it will take the CPU down to 50% by default.  You can change that if you wish.

Regarding the sound, I turned off all the enhancements and have it set to two channels.  I'm thinking driver right now given that the volume adjustment doesn't do anything and that I can't get anything out of the analog ports or headphone ports.  Just the digital, and it's not working right there.

One additional thing on the kernal cpu usage.  There is no HDD usage when it spins.  Also, yesterday I finished getting all my relocated drives online so pointed my media player to the photos and music directory.  It appropriately built up it's libraries and after leaving the machines for a few hours the kernal hadn't started to spin up!  The only difference is that I put in those folder directories and left the monitor on.  

Now, before bed, I set a scheduled recording turned off the power to the monitor and in the morning the kernal was spinning away again.  It only recorded 10 minutes before stopping.  I know it sounds odd, but I rebooted and left the monitor on before going to work.  I'll check on it again tonight.  I do have all 'sleep/hibernation/video turn off' all disabled.  I was trying to remove as many variables as possible.

Is there any reason that the ntkrnlpa.exe (which I read was part of the Hardware Access Layer - HAL) would WANT/NEED to have the monitor actually communicating?  Seems odd to me.

Seriously grasping at straws now,
Mike

[Intuit]

Re kernel 100% issue, I had a similar problem awhile ago though it wasn't using 100%... it would repeatedly spike to about 16% on/off.  Using Process Explorer (SysInternals) I looked under Properties -> Threads for the "SYSTEM" process and was able to track the issue back to an (ancient) Epson printer status monitor program.  Once the program was forced closed, the CPU stoped being spiked.  It was also useful for monitoring excessive processor by a USB driver installed with a (cheap) ethernet networking device.

Re sound, I should've stated "preamp" volume versus just "volume".  The distortion occurs in the preamp stage and therefore nothing can be done about it.

[Jesterocity]

Shagbag, I don't have any figures, it was something I read in a mag a while ago which has since been recycled. Thi months magazine does say in a review of it that XP is still faster for games and probably will be until the vista only games come through,which makes sense.
Strangely I thought I replied already but the post hasn't turned up. Must have clicked the wrong button or something.

J.

[mjensen2k]

Is there any reason that the ntkrnlpa.exe (which I read was part of the Hardware Access Layer - HAL) would WANT/NEED to have the monitor actually communicating?  Seems odd to me.

Seriously grasping at straws now,
Mike

Ok, scout's honor here...  

I let the machine run all day yesterday in MCE.  It recorded a couple shows and idled around just fine for 15+ hours.  It was happy all through the evening.  Just to test the monitor thing I turned it off as I was getting ready for bed.  I checked it a little later and it was spinning on the kernal again with 11+ minutes of cpu charged to it.  Amazing.  I'm convinced it has to do with turning off the monitor.  I think I'll go back to the default power options and let the machine handle the monitor and I'll leave the power on.  See how well it behaves.

Mike

[OldDummy]

@mike STRANGE stuff.......

============
Nero oem 6.*, bundeled with most(?) dvd recorders  just doesn't work in vista. downloaded the 7.7* and it works very well so far. It's not free/cheap.

Not being able to rotate .tiff's  in the viewer is getting to be a pain in the butt.

SB Audigy stopped working, don't know why. Installed X-Fi using BETA drivers again....

HP PSC 1315 All-in-one seems to print ok, scanning is broken.

Boot.ini is gone, BCEDIT is created.

[mjensen2k]

I confirmed the behavior last night again.

I updated my power-profile to turn off the monitor after 20 minutes and it worked just fine.  It shutsdown the monitor and wakes up just fine without the 100% kernal spin.

Interesting.

FYI, this happened with both the onboard 6100 and my pci-e 7600gs.  Both were using the generic PnP monitor driver.  I have it going to a Dell 2405.  I should pull the 2405 driver I suppose.

[OldDummy]

I’ve come to a decision about Vista….I’m going to remove it from my main box when the new PSU and card reader arrive. The reason being that too many things are broken right now. I am running Vista on the main box because that is the only way to get some feel for the OS and to have it used.  So while it’s good to view and tryout the new OS it is a pain when something has to get done. Sooo reverting back to XP when I get the new items, I have to make a choice about which hdd to remove and right now it's the Vista. However; this is my intention now, who knows what will happen when the time comes.

My wife is the one who will not appreciate the change, she likes the 3D School of fish for the desktop….  :roll:

EDIT: Might pull this off, using the fish as the desktop in XP, she won't really know the difference. :blank:

OD

[mjensen2k]

Good luck with that OD!

FYI, I lost a harddrive in my server the other day so have been scrambling on data recovery.  Argh.  Merry x-mas.  So much for all that extra cheap storage I bought with black-friday deals.  That's pretty much gone now.

The Shuttle remains solid with the new power-scheme and letting it control the monitor.  I haven't found any answer to the sound issue yet, but will report back if I do.

Mike

[OldDummy]

@Mike
           Data loss really really stinks, been there done that. Hope everything turns out for you. Currently running XP32 and things are stable. just too many things broken when you have to get a project done in Vista. I have enough stuff going on without that. My DSL line went belly up last night with a power surge, so I worked on it this morning and tried to move the desk......my rotator cuff surgery is two months old and it barked at me. I'm ok but it told me to be careful, So be it. Had to move my router and dsl modem to the basement because I must of messed up the wires when I tried to move the desk. Oh well, these things happen. Anyway:

We have alot to be thankful for, Merry Christmas to you and your family.

OD
 

[Shagbag]

You might want to do us all a favour and verify Vista's Digital Restrictions Management (DRM) 'features' tested in the following article:

http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt

[Intuit]

There are some DvD movies that won't even play in my computers, like X-Men (3?) for example.  The PowerDvD, WinDvD and WMP software refuse to under any circumstance.  That's the kind of BS that makes you want to start copying and start buying copied movies just to spite them.

[OldDummy]

You might want to do us all a favour and verify Vista's Digital Restrictions Management (DRM) 'features' tested in the following article:

http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt

Boy, you do have an attitude toward MS. Anyway....I did do a little VERY unscientific test for my own curiosity. I am not the best one to do any tests due to my very limited knowledge of the dvd/cd/copy genre. But I tried to copy the same DVD in the different OS’s [vista, XP]. In XP I could utilize DVD9 while in Vista DVD5 was the best I could do. While I know that DVD9 is better than DVD5 I really can’t quantify it. As stated before my knowledge is limited.  

 What I can say is that this might be a function of the newness of the OS rather than the “intention” of the OS features to degrade the signal.
=========================
EDIT: The new PSU was installed today. The card reader wasn't so the VIsta project still has life. For how long you ask........I don't know.  
==
On the HP website it was noted that Vista drivers would be forthcoming in mid to late January 2007....hmmmm....what a pain.

OD

[JustPlainDon]

For what it is worth, I'm running 64-bit Vista (RC2) on a Shuttle SD37P2.  I'm able to use the old standards DVD Shrink and DVD Decrypter.  Obviously if they have the Sony copy protection on them, these two programs will not work.  I have not tried DVDFab Decrypter yet.  The platinum (the one you pay for) will run under Vista and I am guessing the free one will also run under Vista.

I've burned disc images using ImgBurn (free) and Nero 7.x.  BTW, no problems with burning or copying DVD5 or DVD9 using these two programs and DVD Decrypter.

L8r,
Don

[OldDummy]

For what it is worth, I'm running 64-bit Vista (RC2) on a Shuttle SD37P2.  I'm able to use the old standards DVD Shrink and DVD Decrypter.  Obviously if they have the Sony copy protection on them, these two programs will not work.  I have not tried DVDFab Decrypter yet.  The platinum (the one you pay for) will run under Vista and I am guessing the free one will also run under Vista.

I've burned disc images using ImgBurn (free) and Nero 7.x.  BTW, no problems with burning or copying DVD5 or DVD9 using these two programs and DVD Decrypter.

L8r,
Don

Thanks for the input Don,
              I utilized DVDFab Decrypter and dvd shrink in both OS’s.  DVD shrink goes right into burn mode in XP, in Vista it asks for a burn program to use suggesting Nero. I believe that Nero 7.1+ is needed in Vista and that is what gave me a DVD5 option in Vista. I don’t know the difference between DVD5===>DVD9, but I know that DVD9 is a 1 to 1 100% copy. What is DVD5?

OD

[JustPlainDon]

DVD5 is a single layer DVD.  We typcially buy single layer DVD+/-R because they are real cheap.

DVD9 is dual layer DVD.  Most theatrical releases are on this type of disc.  While my burner supports both + and - dual layer discs, I usually buy the +DL's (and they play on my equipment).

The guy who wrote DVD Decrypter wrote the ImgBurn proggie with an updated burn engine so it does a great job of burning DL DVDs from ISO back ups.

L8r,
Don
(now if I can just get my Fusion HDTV5 Express card to work I'll be a happy camper)

[mjensen2k]

FYI, AnyDVD + DVDShrink 3.2 has been working just fine for me.  I use it to re-author with no compression and backup to harddrive for distribution.  The only DVD's I've burned in Vista are data .iso images and used the tool from the window 2003 server toolkit.  Not very friendly but did the trick for how little I burn.

In my case, I wish I could figure out a good streaming method around my house.  The WMP11's sharing/streaming works great, except that the Vista MCE interface won't catalog/show the streamed media.  Odd.

FYI, the machine has been very solid as long as I continue to let it control the monitor.

[OldDummy]

@ miensen2k

     Good to hear it's stable Mike. I have been running mostly XP due to the problems with scanning. HP has said that drivers are due mid to late January so that is my timetable to + my Vista-Time. Office 2007 is a very different concept from 2003. I'm keeping 2003 for awhile, can't find anything in 2007 yet.

I booted up Vista the other day and left it for awhile. when I returned it was at the logon for XP so it must have rebooted. I would have thought that it was an update but when I went back in it reported a "unclean" shutdown. So now I don't know what to think. ...... we shall see.

OD